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for a huge show tomorrow night. the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of new york will join me on set. so will the former white house secretary stephanie grisham. a quick reminder that my brand- new book comes out this tuesday. i will be visiting a lot of different cities over the next few weeks for some great conversations with some people you will definitely recognize including lawrence o'donnell on wednesday and many others. we will put all the info up on our social media. i hope to see lots of you out on the road. in the meantime we will see you tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. there is much more news coming up on msnbc. on this our of ayman, outside agitators. are they scapegoats? a dartmouth professor

thrown to the ground, zip tied, and arrested. what fueled the violence. with donald trump talking about fairness there is a new film reminding us of what he and his supporters did after the last election. i am ayman mohyeldin. let's do it. as pro-palestinian and antiwar protests spread to college campuses across the country, there was one phrase that kept popping up. >> outside agitators. >> outside agitators. >> outside agitators. >> outside agitators. >> outside out -- agitators. >> paid outside agitators. >> in recent days university administrators, enforcement officials and politicians have all trotted out that familiar trope. the so-called outside agitator.

accusing foreign actors of hijacking protest and encouraging participants to adopt more aggressive and violent tactics. just yesterday a bipartisan duo consisting of mike lawlor and democrat josh got heimer called on the fbi to investigate those supposed that shadowy figures. a similar sentiment was shared online by the nypd chief a patrol who accused an unknown entity of radicalizing vulnerable students and taking advantage of their young minds. he urged his partners to, quote, follow the money. we should be clear. of the hundreds of people arrested many have not been students including at columbia university where officials say 29% had no connection to the school. as the new york times reports, there is little evidence that

those so-called outsiders had any role in organizing or escalating the protest. in fact, many were arrested without setting foot on campus. according to a review of police documents only a small handful of the nearly 3 dozen arrestees lacked ties to the university had also participated in other protests around the country. quite a blow to this professional protester narrative that is being pushed around by law enforcement. the times also revealed that far more of the unaffiliated protesters had no such histories. instead, the demonstrators said they arrived in response to social media posts or word-of- mouth invites. that includes matthew, a 52- year-old computer programmer who has lived within a half- mile of columbia for most of his life. he was arrested on the street outside of the school after he stood in the middle of the intersection and refused to budge. the native new yorker dismissed the notion that nefarious outside actors were pulling the

strings, describing his fellow nonstudent protesters to the times as, quote, members of the community, folks from the city, folks from our neighborhood. not some kind of foreign element that had snuck in. one college student explained why she thought officials were pushing this. quote, i really struggle a lot with the whole narrative of outside agitators. i see it as a means through which to justify violence. it is a claim that because individuals are not students they are deserving of police brutality. it also accomplishes another goal. distraction. distracting from the primary aim which is to bring attention to the war in gaza. we should call out this bogeyman narrative for what it is. an effort to discredit and delegitimize a whole movement.

it's nothing new in this country. the same trope was frequently evoked during the civil rights movement used to imply that protesters were driven by the sinister agendas of unknown shadowy figures as opposed to being motivated by their own personal beliefs and concerns. even martin luther king jr. was labeled as an outside agitators since he was often called to assist with demonstrations across the south. not only did he reject that label, he also rejected the very idea of outside agitators. as he famously wrote in a letter from a birmingham jail, we are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial outside agitator idea. anyone who lives inside the united states can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds. taking a foss is, a foss --

kicking us off this evening is eddie. he's the author of the new book we are the leaders we been looking for. confessor, it is great to have you with us. thank you for making time for us. you know this subject better than i do, but this trope of outside agitator. talk to us how it has been used to undermine movements for decades in this country. it is nothing new. >> absolutely. that was a wonderful lead into the conversation, ayman. and outside agitator place both roles as the student. rightly noted it is a distraction from the issues at hand and also a justification for repression. we can look at it across the 20th century. we can look at it in the context of the communist scare. most of the activism of black folk was driven by communist.

that gets amplified in the context of the cold war. we can look at it as the way in the civil rights movement was thought about. not only king but the student nonviolent coordinating committee. all this is occurring in the context of the mccarthy era where the red scare is in some ways driving politics. why is that important? to identify these outside actors is then to say that they are the reason for the disturbance. by virtue of that connection, now we have an enemy within. we can justify the repression. you have the justification of repression by denying agency to the students and activists by attributing the actual cause to these folklore outside nefarious agents trying to undermine american society. as you rightly noted this effort to not only delegitimize the protest, to the she is -- delegitimize the issue and also

justify violence. >> one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you this week is because you teach college students. you interact with them on a daily basis. what is your reaction to officials claiming that these young minds have been taken over by an outside force? it's a very insulting narrative. it is hard to believe young people could be spurred into their own convictions and beliefs on their own accords. that they are coming into the world, seeing and understanding for themselves without sudden outside influence that we say our kids are being radicalized and that should scare us and the parents are to blame or the universities are to blame. >> the same thing was said about baby boomers in the context of the love movement. the students are dismissive of these kinds of condescending characterizations of their inability to discern what is happening in the world. the students today are really attuned to help broken the

world is and how broken the u.s. is because they came of age in the midst of these crises. then they notice that people are just throwing spaghetti on the wall. they are trying to delegitimize the university because it is de i and affirmative action. then it is woken us that is driving the students. that is one reason and then, they are just privileged white students trying to virtue signal. they don't know what they are talking about. we saw all of these excuses. there's the condescending belief that young people are not thinking seriously about moral and ethical commitments and not bringing them to bear on the moral issue that confronts their generation. they are making a choice that the united states should not be committing resources to the mass murder of folk. these people do not want to

accept that view. the view has been thought out. ayman, you know this. the boycott and divestment movement among students has been going on since 2005. these folk are just being moved about by outside agitators. this is the way you delegitimize a movement. >> they started out saying it was ivy league schools, white privilege students. then it spread to florida and texas and georgia so they have had to modify the accusations and allegations. i wanted to share with you this quote from a columbia university professor. she told salon magazine that the real outside agitators has been the conservative congressional members who have showed up to campus. she singled out eric adams the mayor of new york for doing, quote, nothing but already stirring up volatile emotions and communications. how have these protests been co- opted by those seeking to push

their own political agendas onto these movements? do you think they have been successful at co-opting it and rewriting the narrative that has pushed others to follow suit? >> i think so. look at how the president of columbia responded after her testimony before congress. it's right after that that we see the escalation by the invitation of the new york police department. we have to see the role of conservatives in pushing this. we also have to see the role. we have to be honest here. of centrist democrats pushing this narrative as well. it has something to do with the very vexed way in which the nation grapples with the question of israel. when we see that our language has blocked us in. we can't talk about israel without it being assumed -- we can't criticize the policies of the

state of israel without it being written as anti-semitic. that identifies the debate by way of trying to shut it down. i experience this as the president of the american academy of religion. we had a panel that was supposed to be about the boycott and divestment movement. all broke loose and it was a nonviolent gesture. any time there's a nonviolent gesture whether it is bds or the march for return, it is met with this intense response which boxes in how they talk about self-determination among palestinians. the conversation spirals and the debate spirals in this way. >> you bring up an interesting point. let me play you this soundbite. this is elise stefanik . >> there's a foreign piece that we need to get to the bottom of

whether it is foreign funding in these middle east studies propping up anti-semitic professors and propagating anti- semitic curriculum. we need to not allow that foreign funding and that will be an important legislative solution. in addition, any individuals that are part of these pro- hamas riots that are on student visas they need to be revoked and those individuals need to be deported immediately. >> a sitting congresswoman admonishing it an entire field of study calling on universities to deport foreign students. is this an attack on protesters or an extension on the war on higher education. he said in the other examples and ability to try to just narrow the conversation about foreign policy and specifically israel. >> absolutely. we've heard the talking points of qatar funding middle east

programs and these bad actors behind-the-scenes. we have to understand this against the backdrop of this wholesale attack on american higher education by the conservative right. what do i mean? there's an attempt to delegitimize the institution. we saw this in the context of ronald reagan when he was governor of california. you delegitimize so you can defund. as a result, we see the wholesale attack on higher education middle eastern programs, gender studies programs, the humanities generally become the big bogeyman that is in some ways corrupting the minds of our students. then this gets linked to the critique of israel. this is the outcome of what has been happening in american higher education since the 1960s. the irony of it all, these are the same folks that were trafficking in anti-semitic tropes.

george soros is funding the stuff. again. these globalists are at the heart of wokeness. we heard that during the black lives matter movement. that they were funding the black lives matter protests. now these same bad actors -- it's almost as if they think people are stupid. >> when the leader of the republican party is meeting and dining with holocaust deniers, it is lost on the republican party and folks like elise stefanik who will condemn it. it's a stretch to take them seriously with anything else to do. professor, it is always good to see you. thank you. knocked to the ground, zip tied and arrested. at dartmouth professor is here to discuss that and more. zed p.

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shell renewable race fuel. reducing emissions by 60%. ♪♪ we're moving forward with indycar. because we're moving forward with everybody. shell. powering progress. amid crackdowns on pro- palestinian and antiwar campus protests, shocking videos have emerged showing faculty members being zip tied, thrown to the pavement, and arrested by police officers. those clips have gone viral including this video of a dartmouth college professor filmed by a reporter for wm you are. you can see the 65-year-old historian who has taught at dartmouth for more than three decades being not to the ground

by officers. she was zip tied, charged with criminal trespassing and temporarily banned from campus as a condition of her bill -- bail. she once served as the head of jewish studies. she said she watched police confrontations with student protesters at other demonstrations. she wanted to be at the dartmouth protest because as an oldish jewish professor she believed her presence could help keep students safe. and elise, thank you for making time for us. talk to me about what happened in the moments leading up to that video and what happened in the immediate aftermath. >> in the moments leading up to the video the police arrived without warning and they were not regular police. there had been a small encampment established maybe four or five tents. it started as a prolabor rally because about 1000 students on

campus are on strike for a living wage. then it developed into a delphi estimate is cut divestment rally with students calling for dartmouth to divest from companies that engage in the making and cellophane munitions to israel. so what happened then is that a very peaceful rally became something violent, not as a result of anything the students did but as a result of these unbelievably heavily armed riot police being called into the peaceful campus. within a matter of minutes they had told campus security they had to leave and began arresting people . like many professors across the country that have gotten themselves beaten and arrested i simply wanted to record the arrest of my students especially because sometimes those arrest that night were quite rough. after, i think, the third student arrest that i recorded

i felt a ram behind. i was body slammed by these guys in body armor. i landed at the feet of the protesters. i got up and tried to get my phone back and then i was picked up under my arms, slammed to the ground. at one point dragged across the green and there was a police officer with a knee on my back. i was held down by three officers, zip tied, put in dartmouth college fans with the logo covered over so they could not be identified as college fans and taken to jail with my students. these local jails are so small they had to find several for us because so many were arrested that night. people were not told where they were going. it was difficult to find the students. >> i really appreciate that. i wanted to ask why you felt

the need to be down there. . did you feel like your presence might de-escalate the situation. >> the administration of the college sent out very strict rules about what was allowable. there was no speaking through amplification, no being on the green after a certain hour. i was worried that there was going to be a reaction. it never occurred to me. we thought they are not going to hurt us. we worked even by the encampment. there was another group of students that we thought if we stood between them and the riot police our students would be safe. i was not safe. i am still recovering from some

of the injuries they inflicted. >> can you reflect, as somebody who participated at this and documented this you are watching the national discourse around the protests. you see the police reaction to it. what is it that we are getting wrong or the narrative is misunderstanding about what you and other professors are going through on these college protests. it's being described as he saw as outside agitators. hamas sympathizers. it is not that from your experience. >> this was the sweetest, most peaceful rally. it was interfaith. there were clergy from christian, muslim, buddhist, jewish denominations. the chanting was very mild for the most part. there was nothing that could be seen as aggressive although the president of the college told me she disagreed with me about that.

i think what the media is getting wrong is there is a sense that these protesters are violent. they are harassing jewish students. i have friends and colleagues at columbia and ucla and there was all that violence with the new york police department coming in on the campus of columbia the day before. horrific images coming out of ucla. i think one thing that is not being realized apart from the peacefulness of most of these demonstrations, there was one study that said it was 99% of them that were completely peaceful. with any movement, there were a handful of people who behave in ways that might embarrass the movement, but even in those cases there is nothing that justifies the level of violence, shooting rubber bullets at students. coming in with trenches. one of the women i was with was 82 years old. they were sticking it in her ribs and we were worried her bones would break. my students were traumatized by

seeing what happened to me. i think what we are getting wrong is that this is a beautiful, powerful, largely peaceful movement. most of the people who were involved were 18 to 22-year-old women. they are students and they are protesting around what they feel is the moral issue of their day. they feel like they have no choice. they have to do this. now what has happened is that it is criminalized on campus. it is criminalized and punished by violence, by injury, by expulsion. >> it is a dangerous moment because it certainly won't end with this issue. thank you so much for your time. we are glad to see you are doing okay. we hope you will be back on the program. thank you for your time. >> thank you. up next, christian leaders

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the 2024 global report on food crisis lays out a grim reality. the united nations secretary- general says it is a, quote, rollcall of human failings. the gaza strip has the highest number of people facing catastrophic under ever recorded. the director of the world food program said this today. >> there is full-blown famine in the north. it is moving its way south. >> the u.n. accuses israel of blocking aid from entering gaza. israel denies the claim. leaders and humanitarian experts have been calling out this dire situation. christian leaders are also joining those calls. in a recent letter more than 140 bishops and executives from church organizations called for a permanent cease-fire and for world powers to halt additional

arms sales to israel. they write, quote, we repent of the ways we have not stood alongside our palestinian siblings and faithful witness. they teach, uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed. 20 -- joining me to speak about this is doctor cannon. let me get your thoughts on what you and your fellow christian leaders are calling for and why the global church could not remain silent seven months into this. >> think you cost ayman. we have been horrified by the position of the biden administration and that they have taken so long to respond. we've been calling for a cease- fire from day one that they would lay down the red -- weapons and the attacks are horrific but the shutting off of water, food, gas and electricity was a crime against humanity. the death toll became hundreds

and then thousands. nobody thought at christmas time but then by easter this war , now it is a war against gaza. the civilians are paying the price. now we have a death toll of 14,000 children. that is not counting the children that will be permanently damaged because of not getting adequate nutrition. we have been saying enough. we've been calling on the biden administration. i wish the white house was having conversations the way you are on your show. you are having robust discussions about real issues and that is not happening in this administration. >> your letter also addresses how world leaders have responded with rhetoric and volleying about addressing the crisis while ignoring the direct cause of the catastrophe. why do you think that is? why do you think leaders are reluctant or unwilling to address the issue and try to

bring it to an end? >> we have been having regular meetings with the white house. they keep saying they have made significant progress by how many trucks are being allowed inside. we keep saying that the issue should not be how many trucks are allowed in. the issue should be that it's against international law to cut off water or humanitarian access in the first place. why is the united states building appeared two miles off the mediterranean coastline that will only allow 158 trucks a day into gaza when there are miles and miles of trucks ready to go if israel would only allow them in. it seems that they are missing the main point. we know throughout history whenever the american president and american government puts their money where their mouth is. whenever they say enough, israel has stopped. we saw this during young cook

for -- young kept for and lebanon whenever they said enough israel has listened. we hear the white house saying do not invade but then we hear them saying, do not invade unless there is a plan. then we hear them saying they do not have a plan but we hear them saying there can't be an adequate plan. what are they saying? that is what is so incredibly frustrating coming from the administration. we are calling on them to stop this empty rhetoric and substantiate their claims. do not send weapons. do not say end the war and then sent billions of dollars with the weapons. for those of us that follow the prince of peace and are christians there are millions of american christians that are completely against what is happening. it's not in the best interest of palestinians or israel let alone the united states. >> you recently described to usa today how many church leaders have been luck to talk

about the war fearing that it might so division among the congregation. you said they are immobilized by fear. can you talk to us a little bit about that? why is the fear so prevalent. you talked about christians in this country. there's also millions of christians that support israel and think it has the right to do everything it is doing and want to see it do more. certainly those on the right side and the conservative movement in this country. how do you explain that? >> i think most people do not understand what is happening. they don't see or understand. when i first went to israel i had three masters degrees and was getting my first doctorate. i went from jordan across the bridge and a border patrol person said are you going to the west bank? i was very well educated. i had my first book coming out. this was more than a decade ago. they said are you going to the west bank and i said no. i was in the west bank. most americans do not know the

geography or the history of the conflict. forgive me but most americans are ignorant of the history of the geopolitics of the conflict. i was. some of what we need to do is to show that if you really care about the future of israel you cannot ignore the suffering, the blockade of gaza the suffering of the palestinian people. it's in the best interest of israel and the palestinians to stop bombing gaza. every day the bombing continues you have growing anti-semitism. israel becomes more of a pariah state. every day that this war continues. >> raven, thank you so much for your time and insights. we look forward to speaking to again. thank you for making time for us. >> thank you for having me. next up, a new film that might reshape how you view that january 6 riot.

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today marks six months to the 2024 presidential election. there are still republicans who refuse to say that trump lost last one. here is my friend and colleague doing her very best with a man who donald trump says he is considering for vice president. >> senator, will you commit to accepting the election results of 2024? bottom line? >> at the end of the day the 47th president of the united states will be president donald trump. i'm excited to get back to low- inflation. low unemployment. >> yes or no. will you accept the results no matter who wins? >> that is my statement. >> just yes or no. will you accept the election results? >> i look forward to president trump be in the 47th president. >> just a yes or no answer. >> elected officials like him

and cowardice like that to keep the big lie alive. not to mention the ex-president is once again planting the seed with his base sowing doubt and how fair the next election will be. as we reported last night he told the milwaukee journal sentinel that if the election is honest he will accept the results but if it's not you have to fight for the right of the country. that sounds eerily similar to what he told reporters before the january 6 riot to fight like and fight like they did as you will see in a new documentary . it is called the sixth. it's a unique, searing play-by- play of the attack told by six people that were there. a photographer, three officers, congressional aid and member of congress. >> i am reliving it in my brain. i have all of the frames just going in my head.

the look on this man's face was, i am about to [bleep] i . you do not see police officers look like that very often. police officers are stoic, proud, in control. this officer was not in control. if they wanted to kill him they were going to kill him. >> so why tell the story? why tell it now? the award-winning filmmakers of the six join me next. try dietary supplements from voltaren, for healthy joints. ♪ that colonoscopy for getting screened ♪ ♪ is why i'm delaying ♪ ♪ i heard i had a choice ♪ ♪ i know the name, that's what i'm saying ♪ -cologuard®? -cologuard. cologuard! -screen for colon cancer. -at home, like you want. -you the man! -actually, he's a box.

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>> nobody ever said it would be easy, but healing begins with the truth. there was an effort to bury and rewrite the history of what happened on january 6. you don't almost knock over the government of the united states by accident. it is not an impulse move. this was an organized attack on the government. if you allow for there to be confusion, propaganda, and disinformation about it. that is very dangerous because it conditions the society to accept it and licenses political violence in the future. >> that was a clip from the powerful a 24 film the sixth. the documentary has dropped as we marks six months to the next

election which donald trump is already sowing doubts over the way he did in 2020 as documented in the documentary. with us now is the creator, award-winning filmmakers andrea and shawn. it's great to have you both was a of -- with us. you put the events of the day in order in a way we've never seen and that's even for us who have covered it every single day, investigation, congressional testimony. with all the footage you had to sift through, with all the interviews you did what stood out to you about all of this. about january 6 and the making of this film. >> thank you for having us. i think what really connected the most in the beginning of working on this even though you felt like you knew these events until you walk in the shoes of the people that were actually there, i don't think i ever

understood the sheer scale and violence of what happened. i think that now more than ever these events need to be deeply understood. it is honestly not about party. it is about what we as americans are needing to look at. it is a piece of really important history that we have to own and really understand how important it is that when this gets to this level of violence and is being revised as to what happened, it is deeply troubling for our country. >> sean, how do you counter what we have been hearing from republican officials, some members of congress who said these were a group of tourists going through a stroll in congress or it was just a very fine day on capitol hill. there were peaceful demonstrators. when you have witnessed and seen this and documented it. how do you counter the narrative? >> i would have them watch the

film. i would have them watch the timeline of what ensued that day. i would have them look at the footage in our film. i do not think you can look at what happened and hear from the people that were scared for their lives that day that you can see that or see the footage and think this did not happen. what our film tries to do is look at some pieces of that day that, i think, get overlooked. i think the front of the capitol in front of the tunnel where people were trying to get in, there's sledgehammers and the crowd. i don't know how a slip -- sledgehammer comes to a peaceful demonstration. people had weapons. people were so fired up and angry that if you watch the film, especially the section in front of the tunnel the way that police defended that.

if they had gone and i think we would be having a very different conversation. i think a lot more people would've gotten injured because there was a riot outside. >> i don't even know if we would mix sincerely have the funding democracy if they had gone inside and disrupted the vote count. let me ask you about the sentiments that you documented that day and whether or not those same animated feelings that you captured with the protesters and what they were setting out to do, based on what you have seen we are in a decisive election year like we were in 2020. we are six months out and trump is still in animating figure in the republican party, have the sentiments that animated that day gone away? or are they still very much present in the body politic? >> i think it is clearly those sentiments are there. i cannot imagine that anybody

would think they would've gone anywhere else. i think that, yes it's been looked at and people have run into court and tried and convicted of these things, but more importantly it is to look into the aspects of what is causing such a rift. this is a day that americans were ripping each other apart in front of the capitol building. it almost stopped a transition of power. i would not call it peaceful at that point. i think there is a lot to learn at this point about first, coming to terms with what happened that day. these sentiments are also really coming across with the film is about his six people who came to serve that day. you have journalists, you have representatives of congress, you have congressional staffers and police. these are all public servants. this film is deeply troubling as a love letter -- love letter to public service. anybody that thinks they

understood how terrifying it was and the sacrifice that they made need to see this. you can decide yourself on what you think happened and why but i think understanding the colossal tragedy that happened on the steps of our government and how we handle that going forward is americans deciding who do we want to be and how do we want to go forward. i think understanding what happened and coming to terms with it is where you start. >> andrew brings up an important point about watching this movie, watching the film and getting it maximum viewership. i wanted to ask you about the rollout that it deserves. there was somebody that we spoke to reporting that a 24 has rolled back the decision to stream the film at least for now only making it available to purchase or rent. a 24 would not comment about the decision but i want to know as filmmakers weighing the

importance of this movie with maximum viewership, what you make of that? >> i want to be clear. first of all. a 24 funded a very's expensive documentary. they have believed in this from the beginning. we were making a documentary on the peaceful transition of power and we had a crew there that day. it was a horrific thing to live through and we called the next day and said we want to switch to this. they said we believe in you guys. let's do this. they supported us. i think where it got odd for us was when we were told it was going to be on a streamer and then all of a sudden we were told a few weeks before it was going to be on that streamer for free that it would no longer be on that streamer and it would be video-on-demand which means you have to pay for it. from our standpoint it is really difficult. i have made the analogy before. we make a film. all the characters, they enter

into the film knowing that it will be out there and they trust us. we have to go back and tell them this film is not going to be out the way it was told to us and we don't have a reason to tell you why, i think it is really odd. it's a really strange place that we are in. >> but the difference when you have something on prime video that is streaming with your membership that is a 200 million person audience viewing base. it is a huge number. we will never know how that shifts and change. it could be put on later in the year but it was just the fact that we need to get this out we need everybody to understand. it feels like required viewing for people to go forward before they vote. i think it is required viewing as a history lesson for what is going on. >> we've had people watch the film that respond saying, i saw civil war but this is the real thing. it's amazing.

so it is like that but we are documentary makers. we want people to see our films. a 24 wants it to make money. we don't understand. we are in the dark about it. >> let's hope some people are watching tonight that will go and watch this movie. it is a must-see for the sake of our democracy. i think it is mandatory viewing for every one of our voters in this country. thank you to both of you and congratulations. thank you for making time for us this sunday. be sure to catch ayman every sunday. you can follow us at x and instagram. until we meet again i am ayman mohyeldin. goodnight. only on verizon. well done, viv. you got the presents, the balloons and the raptor cake.

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