for incompetence and division. much more analysis and reaction to come and record high levels of immigration have failed to boost britain's economy , and boost britain's economy, and immigration should be returned to the tens of thousands. >> that's according to a new report. we'll speak to one of the senior tory mps who co—authored said report and a . co—authored said report and a. double royal snub for prince harry during his trip to the uk. >> first, he's told the king is too busy to meet, then discovers he'd been replaced by prince william as head of the army air corps. >> yeah, not a great week. >> yeah, not a great week. >> and we want your views and your reaction to the astonishing news that broke at 12:00 this afternoon. another defection. the third. this parliament straight from the labour party to the conservative party. a sensational crossing the floor

that really disrupted and perturbed the prime minister at the start of prime minister's questions. >> i mean, tom, you've just been on for the last, hour or so, covering pmqs. and i'm seeing here that lots of reaction already coming in, lots of people not very impressed with the fact that a conservative mp would cross the floor and citing immigration in particular, as one of the reasons, which is curious. >> it's very, very odd seeing as natalie elphicke has been one of the most vocal members of parliament, being the member of parliament, being the member of parliament for dover. of course, she's on the front line of the small boats crisis, but she's not only been critical of the small boats and the evil gangs that send them , she's also been that send them, she's also been critical of keir starmer and yvette cooper, and the lack of policy from the labour party to deal with it. >> i just wonder what keir starmer has promised her, to do this. keep your views coming in gbnews.com/yoursay we're going to get reaction very soon indeed. but first, it's your headunes indeed. but first, it's your headlines with tatiana.

>> emily. thank you. the top stories from the gb newsroom. the conservative mp for dover stunned her colleagues this afternoon, crossing the floor and joining the labour party. natalie elphicke blamed her decision on what she called the broken promises of rishi sunak tired and chaotic government. it's the latest in a dramatic drop in the government's working majority since the last general election, from more than 80 seats to less than 50. today's defection was announced by sir keir starmer just moments before today's prime minister's questions. >> if one week a tory mp who's also a doctor, says the prime minister can't be trusted with the nhs and joins labour and the next week the tory mp for dover on the front line of the small boats crisis, says the prime minister cannot be trusted with our borders and joins labour. what is the point of this failed government .7 staggering on.

government? staggering on. >> the prime minister steered clear of labour's newest mp and instead paid tribute to the now former mayor of the west midlands. >> let me join with him in congratulating all knew and paying congratulating all knew and paying tribute to all former councillors , pccs and mayors councillors, pccs and mayors across the country. i hope his i hope his new ones do him as proud as i am of all of mine. mr speaken proud as i am of all of mine. mr speaker, great leaders, great leaders like andy street, great leaders like andy street, great leaders like andy street, great leaders like andy street who leave behind a strong legacy of more homes , more jobs, and more more homes, more jobs, and more investment. in sharp contrast to the legacy left by the last labour government, which was a letter joking that there was no money left to other news, social media companies are being warned they could be banned for those under 18 if they don't keep children safe. >> the media regulator ofcom says platforms must take action to stop their algorithms recommending harmful content to children. it's draft children's

safety codes of practice sets out how it expects some of the world's biggest online platforms to protect children online, and penalties for companies who fail to comply. energy security secretary claire coutinho told gb news the eu's aims to be the safest in the world. >> when i was children's minister, i looked at well—being and one of the things that i was really interested in was the link between how much time our children are spending online and their mental health. and for me, there was two things. it's what they could access, and i'm really pleased that we're doing that online safety legislation because that that will tackle that part. but it's also what it's stopping them doing. so that's the things that i care about. i definitely welcome government's efforts to act on this and make sure that we're the safest place in the country when it comes to sorry in the world. when it comes to being onune world. when it comes to being online for children , two thirds online for children, two thirds of nhs trusts are missing their target to treat patients within 18 weeks of referral, according to analysis by labour. >> the party says that 114 trusts out of 167 have failed to

meet the target in any month since december 2019. trusts are meant to ensure that 92% of patients are treated within 18 weeks of gp referral. most trusts also failed to meet targets, ensuring that most patients wait less than four hours in a&e departments should . hours in a&e departments should. paymaster general jonathan ashworth says the government is failing to properly fund britain's health service. it is a consequence of 14 years of the conservatives drive our nhs into the ground. >> so what's labour's solution ? >> so what's labour's solution? we would introduce a proper tax on the very super wealthy non—doms, and we would use the proceeds from that to fund extra appointments, 2 million extra appointments, 2 million extra appointments a year in our nhs so we can start driving those waiting times down. so if you're waiting times down. so if you're waiting for a hip replacement or a knee replacement or a hernia, perhaps a cataract operation you need, you can get your operation on time. too many people are waiting in pain and agony at the moment for an operation. after

14 years of the conservatives as rail passengers are facing more travel disruption due to ongoing strikes by train drivers, making it the longest ever dispute in rail industry. >> members of aslef are walking out, affecting services across england, wales and in scotland. the few services that are running will start later and finish earlier than usual. aslef says its members haven't had a pay says its members haven't had a pay rise in five years, and accuses the government of giving up trying to resolve the dispute .john up trying to resolve the dispute . john swinney has been sworn in as the new first minister of scotland at a ceremony in edinburgh . he told gb news it's edinburgh. he told gb news it's a huge privilege . a huge privilege. >> it's an enormous honour to come to the court of session and to be sworn in. in a link to the history and the roots of our country, our democracy and the and the rule of law . so for me, and the rule of law. so for me, and the rule of law. so for me, an enormous honour and a privilege to do that and look forward very much to doing so. a big surprise for me and an

enormous privilege. and as i said yesterday , i am here to said yesterday, i am here to serve everyone in scotland, and i look forward to doing so . i look forward to doing so. >> well, the latest stories . you >> well, the latest stories. you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen. or you can go to gp news.com . slash alerts. now back news.com. slash alerts. now back to tom and . to tom and. emily. >> good afternoon britain. it's 1:07. now let's start with that sensational news which broke in the past hour. the conservative member of parliament for dover , member of parliament for dover, natalie elphicke, has defected to the labour party. >> well , joining us now is our >> well, joining us now is our political correspondent, olivia utley with the latest. olivia, what are conservative mps saying ? >> well, 7- >> well, i ? >> well, i mean, this 7 >> well, i mean, this has taken almost everyone in parliament by surprise. there were some conservative mps. i was in the chamber who didn't, who missed keir starmer statement and didn't seem to notice. natalie elphicke crossed the floor and were looking at her in utter

bafflement when pmqs started. most conservative i've spoken to quite a few conservative mps who say that they believe themselves to be to the left of natalie elphicke, and are hugely surprised that she, of all people , have chosen to cross the people, have chosen to cross the floor. unsurprisingly, there's huge anger as well. among the conservative party ranks, there are mps who defended natalie elphicke when her husband of course, was going through the his sex abuse trial and stood by her side in the tough times and are now sort of staggered by her lack of loyalty towards the conservative party. lots and lots. lots of mutterings that she's only done this because she wants to get a peerage under the labour government. what i find quite interesting is there seem to be quite a lot of people on the labour side who aren't too happy either, with keir starmer's decision to let her into the labour party after her husband charlie elphick's conviction, she said that he was being punished for being attracted and attractive to women, which seemed a pretty out of place. comment given the circumstances, and there is consternation among the labour

backbenchers that someone who has been up until this point, so hard line on immigration as you would expect, as the conservative mp for dover, is now changing her tune entirely. some of what natalie elphicke has said in the past about both keir starmer and yvette cooper is pretty staggering , too, given is pretty staggering, too, given that this is now her party. let's just have a look at that . let's just have a look at that. >> yeah, here are the tweets. we can see, there's no plan from keir starmer is what one of these says saying that, he's saying boats. what boats also points out that the labour party back fewer and weaker border controls . she's been very controls. she's been very critical of the yvette cooper, the shadow home secretary and indeed she said that this is labour's small boats policy. keir starmer standing at an open door saying labour do not want to stop the boats. >> well hang on, tom, she might have just, you know , changed her have just, you know, changed her mind, she says. she says this is she now believes the labour party has the, the right plan. >> some of this stuff is only

last year. this is labour's only policy is to rely on the french . policy is to rely on the french. i mean, the most extraordinary turnaround from her there. >> i mean, natalie elphicke was a member of the new conservative group. there's very much right of centre group within the conservative party set up by miriam cates and danny kruger. this does seem to be an enormous about turn . the only sign that about turn. the only sign that perhaps this might have been coming is natalie . elphicke has coming is natalie. elphicke has always been a yimby, as it's known , someone who's pro known, someone who's pro planning reform and her statement does have a lot a statement does have a lot a statement in her resignation statement, which is utterly eviscerating, by the way, of the conservative party, does have a lot about house building in it. that's the only sign that that she was sort of out of step with the direction that the conservative government was heading. but still, it has taken almost everyone by surprise. >> it's interesting, she says. the deciding factors have been housing and the safety of our borders. housing first, borders second. she devotes about three times the length of the statement to housing, compared

to what she does to borders, do you think that that's been the perhaps the trigger in all of this? >> i mean, perhaps that has been the crunch in all of this, you know, there are cynical conservative mps who suggest that there is no policy reason for natalie elphicke defecting. it is purely a question of knowing which side her bread is buttered in the lead up to this election. but if there is a sort of policy crux of the issue, then it must be the housing problem. because as far as we've seen so far. natalie elphicke again on the front line of the small boats crisis has been very much on rishi sunak side, on small boats, very much pro rwanda , etc. rwanda, etc. >> well, olivia, let's have a look at some of these pictures that have just come in of natalie elphicke there meeting with keir starmer , after prime with keir starmer, after prime minister's questions in a parliamentary office there, or is that the commons library. but there we go, a union flag , not there we go, a union flag, not so subtly placed behind sir keir starmer. there now , can we bring starmer. there now, can we bring in, neil o'brien mp, who's here

with us in the studio, conservative mp what do you make of this. >> what do you think when you see those images of natalie elphicke there cosying up with the keir starmer ? the keir starmer? >> i just think it's ridiculous. >> i just think it's ridiculous. >> natalie is , to the right of >> natalie is, to the right of about 9/10 of the conservative parliamentary party, and it tells you everything that she is not going to run for election again . she's not actually going again. she's not actually going to ask the people of dover what they think of her bizarre decision to defect into the arms of a man who she has been, as you've just seen, slating for the last five years, because he is weak on illegal immigration. >> he's a human rights lawyer who will do nothing to stop the small boats. >> and he's also weak on legal migration. >> he just wants more and more people to come. and she's been the person pointing this out again and again and again. >> and now she expects us to believe her when she says, but she's right too, isn't she, neil? >> i mean, we're going to come to on a report that you've co—authored about immigration in just a moment . co—authored about immigration in just a moment. but if we just a little moment. but if we could stay on this for a little bit , she does say that, rishi bit, she does say that, rishi sunak's government is failing to keep our borders safe and secure. that's demonstrably

true. >> things would be a million times worse under labour. >> so i think there are quite a selling point, though, is it so the rwanda legislation is working. >> we see now the irish government in a total panic, declaring that the uk is in fact a safe country. they're worried that people are trying to escape from the legislation. >> thousand people come across the channel since the rwanda bill received royal assent. >> it's too high. i have argued that we should leave the echr to stop all these article eight echr appeals, because i think our asylum system is totally out of control. >> people are being allowed to stay in this country for a ridiculous reasons. >> people are saying and being allowed to stay here because, oh, the health system in my country is not as good as the nhs. oh, i will, i will struggle to reintegrate in nigeria. i think that's absurd. and it's a travesty of the things that were donein travesty of the things that were done in 1950 and 1951, when these systems were set up with these systems were set up with the european convention and the refugee convention. >> the framers of those texts never intended people would be able to stay for these absurd reasons . reasons. >> in fact, they were incredibly limited at first. but they have been warped out of all recognition by the activity of activist judges and tribunals. so, look, i think the rwanda

legislation i voted for robert jenrick amendments to make it go further, but it is already having a positive effect . we see having a positive effect. we see people are trying to go back to the continent. amazingly or going over to ireland, and that tells you everything about whether they are really people who are destitute or people who are actually just here as economic migrants trying to get around the reasonable rules that we have on on legal migration. so, look, it is working. it could be even stronger. but the one thing we do know for sure is under human rights lawyer keir starmer, he says even if it's working, he will get rid of the rwanda scheme. what an absurd position to be in. i mean, he is going to make all of these things 100 times worse and the number of people coming will absolutely rock it, i think. look, i think it's bad. what this country needs is a massive dose of conservatism on this issue, and we need to toughen our position. but it will get definitely worse under keir starmer. >> well, you raised the idea that many of these people are economic migrants, and i suppose that's a lovely and well prepared segue into your new report, co—authored, by the former immigration minister robert jenrick. of course , what robert jenrick. of course, what is it that your report is arguing because the conventional

wisdom has been and it's been said by many people, the economic consensus is that economic consensus is that economic migration is economically beneficial . economically beneficial. >> well, so our report looks at how migration policy overall should be set. and then it goes into some detail on how we should change things. so overall we say that we should reduce migration down to the tens of thousands down from the unprecedented levels that we've had over recent years. it's been running at about 600,000 a year net. so we've seen over the last 20 years 7 million people added to the population by by migration. and in fact, about 1 in 60 people in this country now arrived in just the last year. so we've been having absurdly high levels of migration. the system that's put in by boris johnson has led to a huge surge in migration from the rest of the world, even as it tightened restrictions slightly against europe, much of that being students. yeah. so people come to study. one of the issues is that people come to study, but then they stay. and from developing countries, about between a quarter and a third of those who come as students

actually just end up staying for the long term. and one of the reasons for that, and this is something we say should be changed, is something called the graduate visa. now, under david cameron and nick clegg, under the coalition government, there was this post work study visa, and we got rid of it because it was being hugely abused and people were using it as a way around all of our migration controls , and that caused controls, and that caused migration to fall back. but then the migration advisory committee advised us against bringing this thing back again , because they thing back again, because they said it would just be a loophole and a way into low wage work rather than real study in the uk. and unfortunately, it was brought back, and it's had exactly the bad effects that our independent migration advisory committee warned. we've seen a huge surge in people from, particularly from poorer countries coming. you can pay, say, five grand to go on a one year master's and then you can work and bring dependents here, and they can all work to and you can get around all these rules. you don't have to be working particularly high salary threshold or any salary threshold. and so it's become a kind of a loophole and a way into the kind of gig economy and low wage work of the kind that we were trying to avoid with our migration rules. >> i think what's frustrating for people is that they have

been told that immigration must been told that immigration must be lowered, and that the conservative are committed to controlling our borders and reducing to the tens of thousands like you're proposing now. and it never seems to happen. robert jenrick robert jenrick co—authored this report with you. he has insisted that immigration needs to come down. yet when he was in the home office, he failed to get that onto the agenda. he failed to put that on the table and actually get it done. what is going on in the home office or in government that is preventing immigration from being brought down because people have voted time and time again for it. >> so i had several things to say about that. the first is that robert did actually bring in a package of measures as a minister, which have cut migration over recent months and cut it quite sharply , but he cut it quite sharply, but he invariably gets diluted, though, don't he? he believes, like me , don't he? he believes, like me, that we need to go much, much further now. when david cameron originally set the target to get migration back to a more normal level, a kind of level we had in the 1990s of the tens of thousands a year. the problem with that is we didn't actually control migration from europe because we were in the eu, and then migration from europe was really high. and so that target

was missed. but since brexit, we now do control migration from europe and we can actually hit that tens of thousands of target . and so i do think we now can deliver instead what happened. >> we just increased migration massively from everywhere else in the world. >> yeah . and the problem has >> yeah. and the problem has been that there is a lack of a joined up central target, unless you have that target overall of getting down to tens of thousands, unless you start to do what we recommend in this report and having a kind of annual budget process for migration, then every department will come and they will talk about some short term problem and they'll say migration is a quick fix. oh, there's not enough truckers at the moment. let's get more migration. oh, problem in the care sector. let's get more migration. and before you know it, you've got hugely high levels of migration and you're not thinking properly about what the trade offs are between different types of migration. so it's not just it's not just about the numbers, is it? >> it's about the kinds of migration. that's exactly right. >> so what we say in the report is, as well as bringing the total down, we should do it by being more selective. so there are migrants who come here and they make a big contribution and they make a big contribution and they pay a lot of tax. and some types of migration from some countries. >> that's particularly on that. sorry others on that. you say migrants from the middle east,

nonh migrants from the middle east, north africa and turkey aged 25 to 64 are almost twice as likely to 64 are almost twice as likely to be economically inactive as someone born in the uk. so essentially we've invited people to come here. presumably we believe they're going to then work and then they're twice as likely to be economically inactive. i mean, that's a recipe for economic disaster. yeah >> so in the last census, we saw that the employment rate of people who are born in the uk is higher than the employment rate of people who have come here from another country. and that tells you that migration policy is not on track at all. >> and as i say, hang on, doesn't that just account for those dependents that are brought with them? so people from the middle east and north africa are much more likely to have, for example, a wife who stays at home and a husband who goes out to work that largely would account for having half as much economic activity we know. >> so i should have said what i meant is, even among those who are of working age, excluding the dependents and the children and so on, the employment rate is lower now for some groups from some countries at home to look after children perhaps. yeah. so there's a lot of people

who are inactive , the who are inactive, the economically inactive for that reason. there's a lot more higher rates of unemployment as well among some groups. and if you look broadly speaking, the trend is that people who come here from rich countries, from either western europe or from countries like australia, canada, new zealand, the us and so on, they tend to have very high employment rates and very high employment rates and very high earnings as well. and you get clearly a benefit from that. but then if you have a lot of migration from low skilled people, from particuarly, from poor countries who have an incentive to come here, even if they're ending up working in the minimum wage, because it's still a lot more than in a very poor country, then you will tend to see people who have either quite low rates of employment for the reasons you're just describing, and also potentially quite low wages as well. so they're very unlikely to be net contributors to let's not just let's not pretend that the immigration debate is all about economics. >> is it? lots of people have raised issues of social cohesion, community cohesion, integration , etc, etc. i mean, integration, etc, etc. i mean, would you do you talk about that in this paper and do you discuss multiculturalism where it's failing, where it's succeeding? >> we do talk about that . >> we do talk about that. >> we do talk about that. >> we do talk about that. >> we talk about the cultural

dimension of it and the very large number of people in this country who now can't speak engush country who now can't speak english or can't speak english well. and it's very hard to have a coherent society or to feel like you're a member of a settled society. if lots of people can't even speak to each other, and if there's constant churn, and i think it is quite easy for people who are in affluent areas, in professional occupations, to not really see the effect that it's having, because migration tends to be to areas that are poorer when you when you make a map of where people have moved to in migration in the last ten years, it is typically towards the cities, inner cities and to poorer areas. so a lot of people are missing the full impact of what's happened over the last ten years. but yes, absolutely. the central point in our report is to say, look, let's change migration. so it's more economically beneficial. let's keep the good migration, let's helpful for the economy , but helpful for the economy, but let's reduce the kind of migration that's leading to people either not working or working in kind of low wage gig economy, because overall, actually that will mean we pay more tax because the people coming will be taking out more than they pay in. >> i wonder if rishi sunak is, is listening, thank you very much indeed. neil o'brien

conservative mp well, let's just hear from natalie elphicke. >> now, she's of course, defected to labour. she's been speaking in the last few minutes. let's take a listen. well in 2019, the conservatives stood on a manifesto that was very much centre ground. >> but under rishi sunak, they've abandoned the centre ground and broken many election promises . meanwhile, under keir promises. meanwhile, under keir starmer, labour have changed and i think that change is going to bnng i think that change is going to bring a much better future for our country. and that's why i'm so keen to join the labour party and play my part in bringing that important future forward. okay well that was natalie elphicke , the new labour mp. elphicke, the new labour mp. >> very strange new labour mp. >> very strange new labour mp. >> now we're going to take a very quick break, but we're going to hear another view on the whole immigration debate. perhaps someone who believes that actually , no, all that actually, no, all immigration is good for the economy. we'll find

i >> -- >> good afternoon. britain. it's 1:26. now, as we were discussing before the break, two former conservative ministers are behind a new report by the centre for policy studies. it claims that mass immigration has failed to boost our economy. >> yes. it also argues it's putting severe pressure on housing, public services and infrastructure. robert jenrick and neil o'brien, who we just spoke to, are pushing the government to take on over 30 recommendations, including creating a department of border security. and this is all to dramatically bring down immigration to that promised tens of thousands level . tens of thousands level. >> well, joining us now is the professor of economics and pubuc professor of economics and public policy at king's college london, jonathan portus, jonathan, i want to put to you the claims that , neil o'brien the claims that, neil o'brien made there that there are some migrants who come to the country who are economically productive , who are economically productive, but there are other migrants who come to the country who earn

very, very little and actually take more in state benefits overall than they contribute to the economy, yes. i'm glad you asked me that because there was some very, some very bizarre and frankly , misleading claims being frankly, misleading claims being made just there . so in fact, made just there. so in fact, despite what you and neil o'brien said, recent migrants are very , very likely to have are very, very likely to have jobs. and indeed the employment rate of people who are born outside the uk has gone up much, much faster than the employment rate. >> but jonathan, just just to jump >> but jonathan, just just to jump in there, sorry, sorry to interrupt you so early. i just want to make this distinction. there are some jobs that are paid such a low level and perhaps for families whereby only one person works, there's a dependent who doesn't work , and dependent who doesn't work, and maybe two children who go to school. when you add it all up that way, that's a net cost to the taxpayer rather than a net benefit. >> let me take this in turn.

>> let me take this in turn. >> so first of all, employment rates. >> so when neil, when neil o'brien talks about the very large upsurge in the numbers coming from outside europe recently, he's absolutely right . recently, he's absolutely right. but those people are by and large working. they're more likely to work than brits. they're more likely to work than previous migrants, you, emily referred to people coming from the middle east. well, the issue there for many of them is that they're refugees or asylum seekers are often not allowed to work . so, yes, there is a work. so, yes, there is a problem there. it's a problem dnven problem there. it's a problem driven largely by government policy. but the big increase in immigration from outside the eu for work and study has been overwhelmingly from india and secondarily from nigeria. >> and on average, those migrants actually earn slightly more than brits , and are the more than brits, and are the more than brits, and are the more recent ones. >> jonathan, let me put this one to you. >> let me put this one to you, because i know you're on top of all this stuff, the report argues that migrants from countries such as canada, singapore and australia pay between 4 and 9 times as much income tax as migrants from

somalia or pakistan . that may be somalia or pakistan. that may be uncomfortable for some, but is it true? is it not true, well, that that's everybody who's come here at any point, right. >> so we're not talking about recent migrants at all. it's so, but it's true, a lot of people who came here from somalia came as refugees. >> that's absolutely right. that's not an economic migration route, and there are definitely issues there, to do with how we integrate people, particularly from refugee backgrounds, into the labour market. but we don't and quite rightly, don't apply and quite rightly, don't apply an economic test to decide whether or not somebody is a legitimate refugee. now moving on, as i said, to economic migration , the big increase has migration, the big increase has been people from india, people from nigeria to some extent, people from the philippines, from zimbabwe . from zimbabwe. >> those people are typically working. they're working either in skilled jobs, contributing to the economy or and this is one area where i do have some

sympathy with neil's point. >> there are a lot of recent migrants working in the social care sector now. >> they're it's true they are on relatively low wages . why is that? >> because we choose not to fund the social care sector properly. and one proposal, which i agree with in their report, is that we should put up pay for people in social care to at least the national living wage or a bit above and that would in turn reduce the need for migration that i think jonathan, you seem to be assuming that all the all the migrants who are coming from somalia and pakistan must be refugees, is that the case, well, i was talking about somalia. >> so for somalia , the >> so for somalia, the substantial majority are refugees or of refugee origin or in some cases born in somalia and have acquired european citizenship, through their refugee status. so, yes, that is broadly correct to actually, for pakistan , there's a big pakistan, there's a big difference, i think, between in,

previous waves of pakistani migrants , many of who came to migrants, many of who came to areas which are now quite economically depressed in the north. and again, there are problems there with the, with the economic outcomes both of people of pakistani origin of british origin, they that . british origin, they that. doesn't primarily reflect the recent migration. and again, to repeat the recent migration, the migration that neil o'brien and robert jenrick is complaining about are people who are coming to work. >> they are working, and for the most part, they're either working in jobs that are really reasonably well paid, or they're working in social care because we choose not to pay care workers properly. let me come to on tom's dependent point, because that's also relevant actually , when we say someone actually, when we say someone comes as a dependent, that refers to their visa, doesn't mean they don't work. and in fact, the statistics show quite a large proportion of people who've come recently as dependents are indeed in working in the labour market, and second, of course, when people are here on dependent visas , are here on dependent visas, they're not eligible for public

funds. they can't be on benefits , and that's an important point. >> children do go to school and do use other resources that do cost the taxpayer. >> that's right . >> that's right. >> that's right. >> i mean, jonathan, i think the issue is, is that most people want britain's migration policy to favour britain and work in our favour. so robert jenrick robert jenrick said today that britain should be the grammar school of the world, i.e. highly, highly selective when it comes to which migrants we bring here. so those who are going to be a net economic benefit, and we know they will be. and it does seem that we've had such high rates of immigration and not all have been an economic benefit to this country. i think that's pretty clear. >> i made a couple of points. first of all, on overall migration is certainly an economic benefit to the country. within that, some migrants will be more than others and some will be a net loss . but unless will be a net loss. but unless you think, as robert jenrick and neal seem to think, that you can centrally plan the uk economy , centrally plan the uk economy, that, you know, when somebody is

18, 21 or 25, exactly what's there happening? of course , some there happening? of course, some people will perform differently than others. that's how a free market economy works. we should get that straight, right? how do we we've run into the, into the outbreak now. >> but thank you so much for joining us and talking us through that report. really, really interesting stuff , from really interesting stuff, from you there to, coming up, why are people saying prince harry has been snubbed by the king? not once, but twice. this after this i >> -- >> tom, m >> tom, thank you very much. and good afternoon. these are the top stories from the gb newsroom. the conservative mp for dover stunned her colleagues this afternoon, crossing the floor and joining the labour party. natalie elphicke blamed her decision on what she called the broken promises of rishi sunak. tired and chaotic government . it's the latest in government. it's the latest in a dramatic drop in the government's working majority since the last general election,

from more than 80 seats to less than 50. mr elphicke says there's a brighter future under a labour government . a labour government. >> in 2019, the conservatives stood on a manifesto that was very much centre ground. but under rishi sunak they've abandoned the centre ground and broken many election promises. meanwhile, under keir starmer, labour have changed ed and i think that change is going to bnng think that change is going to bring a much better future for our country and that's why i'm so keen to join the labour party and play my part in bringing that important future forward . that important future forward. >> social media companies are being warned that they could be banned for those under 18 if they don't keep children safe. the media regulator ofcom says platforms must take action to stop their algorithms recommending harmful content to children or face stiff penalties . two thirds of nhs trusts are missing their target to treat patients within 18 weeks of referral, according to analysis by labour. the party says 114 trusts out of 167 have failed to

meet the target in any month since december 2019. the government says wait times and are improving despite record demand over winter months and rail passengers are being hit by more strikes today with little or no service on many lines. more strikes today with little or no service on many lines . the or no service on many lines. the industry's longest pay dispute is affecting services across england, wales and scotland. the aslef union says its members haven't had a pay rise in five years, and accuses the government of giving up trying to resolve the dispute . for the to resolve the dispute. for the latest stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts . news. com slash alerts. >> cheers! britannia wine club proudly sponsors the gb news financial report . financial report. >> here's a quick snapshot of today's markets. the pound will buy you $1.2477 and ,1.1615. the

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good afternoon. britain. it's 1:39. now. some sensational news north of the border. john swinney , the new first minister swinney, the new first minister of scotland, has announced his new cabinet and one surprise job has stolen the headlines. kate forbes, the once challenger for the leadership of the snp . some the leadership of the snp. some have called her a politician of the social conservative bent, while she has been appointed as his deputy first minister.

>> this is very much breaking news. we're going to have more analysis and reaction on this. why did john swinney choose to make kate forbes his deputy first minister minister? she says she's deeply honoured to be ianed says she's deeply honoured to be invited to the role. we'll bring you much more on that. >> but first, yes, prince harry has come to the uk to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the invictus games. >> a service of thanksgiving will be held this afternoon at saint paul's cathedral to commemorate the decade long support competitors in the tournament have received. >> there was speculation that the duke of sussex would make time to visit his father, the king, but a spokesman for prince harry said his majesty's full program meant there was no time to get together. >> his majesty's full broker translation to busy, far too busy to see you. can we speak to cameron walker , our royal cameron walker, our royal correspondent, cameron, thank you very much indeed for joining us, lots of talk about how prince harry has been snubbed. not once , but twice from his own not once, but twice from his own

father . father. >> yeah, it is a bit of a problem for the duke of sussex, emily, isn't it? of course, prince harry is going to want the focus very much to be on the invictus games today, celebrating ten years of supporting wounded veterans in a paralympic style competition, as he said, service of thanksgiving happening in saint paul's cathedral this afternoon. but unfortunately , a lot of the unfortunately, a lot of the headunes unfortunately, a lot of the headlines this morning is the fact that king charles, his father , is too busy to see him father, is too busy to see him and in fact, buckingham palace in the last hour has announced a new engagements for his majesty the king. tomorrow as colonel in chief of the royal engineers. a spokesperson for prince harry told me yesterday that in response to the many inquiries and continued speculation on whether or not the duke will meet with his father while in the uk this week, it's unfortunately will not be possible due to his majesty's full program. the duke, of course, understanding of his father's diary of commitments and various other priorities and hopes to see him again soon. now i interpret that as the sussexes really trying to stamp out all of this speculation so the focus can very much be on the invictus games here today at saint paul's

cathedral, the service of thanksgiving. but the line towards the end of that statement there, the duke, of course, is understanding of his father's diary of commitment. it is very diplomatic, very warm, reads to me a bit like a royal press release, whereas that's in big contrast to a statement that we had from the sussexes. just a couple of years ago, when the late queen stripped both him, prince harry and meghan of his royal patronages and military honours and the statement from the sussexes then was service is universal. all now friends said that that was in the context of very much the context of his charity work. but a lot of the critics are saying that it was a bit disrespectful to the late queen and was a little bit bitter , but as i said, bitter, but as i said, yesterday's statement complete opposite, very diplomatic, very warm , suggesting to me that warm, suggesting to me that prince harry very much wants to mend relationship with his father, the king, and perhaps by extension the rest of the royal family here in the uk and our buckingham palace, kensington palace not commenting this morning whatsoever. we're not expecting the king or prince

william to be here. but there was an interesting time statement from buckingham palace yesterday about a rare joint engagement with king charles and prince william on monday, where the king is going to hand over the king is going to hand over the colonel in chief of the army air corps to his oldest son, prince william, on monday. air corps to his oldest son, prince william, on monday . the prince william, on monday. the cynic in me, i mean, the timing of that statement could very much just be a coincidence. the cynic in me says that perhaps it was timed to suggest that king charles and prince william, their relationship is strong. prince harry and the king needs a little bit of mending. meghan staying in california with her two children. i am told that both harry and meghan flying to nigeria later this month , a nigeria later this month, a country which hopes to host the invictus games very soon, as well as celebrating its culture. >> well, thank you very much indeed. karen walker, our royal correspondent there outside saint paul's cathedral. >> saint paul's cathedral, beautiful outside. >> it's beautiful outside. >> it's beautiful outside. >> we're stuck in a studio, stuck in a studio. >> no, look behind us. >> no, look behind us. >> it's glorious. glorious. we

are , of course, sitting just are, of course, sitting just across the river from the house of commons, as you can see. exactly >> now, we've got lots more to come. we're going to get the very latest from scotland with this breaking news that kate forbes has been announced has been appointed, invited to be the deputy first minister to john swinney. >> what kind of deal has gone on behind the scenes, and will the greens be at all happy about that? might there be more rocky for water the first minister ahead? more on that after this

i >> -- >> well. >> well. >> welcome back to good afternoon, britain with me, emily and tom. now, kate forbes, this is the breaking news has been announced as john swinney's deputy first minister, as he appoints his new cabinet in scotland. >> well, let's cross over to bute house in edinburgh, the

official residence of the first minister, to speak to our scotland. reporter tony maguire. tony, a lot of people have been speculating over what deal backroom deal had been cooked up between kate forbes and john swinney to make there not be a contest . well, now we know . contest. well, now we know. >> indeed. yes, certainly. kate forbes arrived here a little while ago. a bit of a spring in her step, it has to be said, and she went in and obviously quizzed, as they always are, by the press pack outside about what jobs she wanted and she knew. i think by that point she may have known and she certainly teased that she we would, we would wait and see and find out soon enough. and sure enough, within the hour we have this statement now, john swinney, of course , kate forbes being, you course, kate forbes being, you know , standing down last know, standing down last thursday and essentially listening hard to what john swinney had to say and his speech as he launched his campaign, you know, clearly they've had conversations . and

they've had conversations. and indeed, the first minister today has put a statement to say that, you know, very pleased to appoint kate as deputy first minister and look forward to working with her and new government. she went on to call her an immensely talented politician, and her new role will prove critical as we focus on our key commitments to eradicate child poverty and investing in public services and supporting economic growth. now, there was a lot of speculation that kate forbes would slip back into some kind of economic post again or economy, because of course, that's what she was underneath nicola sturgeon. and who better as a mentor than john swinney? certainly. and alex salmond's first government way back in two thousand and seven, it was john swinney that was, cabinet secretary for finance. then and indeed, obviously the scotland's financial woes , if scotland's financial woes, if you like, are going to be high up on the agenda now. shona robison, she is the outgoing deputy first minister. she has since tendered her resignation

for that role to john swinney, earlier on this afternoon. and kate forbes will take that role . kate forbes will take that role. and it's interesting because john swinney last thursday has his, slogan for his leadership was very much unite for independence. now the independence. now the independence is a whole different conversation, but it's the unity with in the party. and without that is going to be some of his biggest challenges. and certainly kate forbes appointment today is a big step towards that . towards that. >> well, tony, thank you very much for bringing us that live from bute house. sensational news there. the new deputy first minister of scotland is someone that, has been quite controversial within left wing politics in scotland. kate forbes. >> yes. could this be a winning alliance, a winning top team for the snp? could it win back zoete turvy, awkward deal between two people who don't agree on much. might it be that we sort of have a scottish version of what we're known as the tbg , gbs in the known as the tbg, gbs in the later years of the of the of

tony blair's premiership, where sort of one was pushing the other out, out the door very often these sort of, leader and deputy, partnerships might look good on paper , but become fairly good on paper, but become fairly unstable as time goes on. >> i mean, is it a bit like keir starmer and angela rayner? they've got, just as many differences as, similarities, i think , or at least that's the think, or at least that's the perception of them too. but of course , two big political course, two big political stories today. natalie elphicke mp , conservative mp for dover mp, conservative mp for dover and deal in kent, moving across the floor, staggering, staggering move for the conservative mp who's been called a very right wing indeed . called a very right wing indeed. yes she was. >> the conservative mp said that she was to the right of 9/10 of the conservative party which suggests, well, is sir keir starmer now trying to position his party to the right of that of rishi sunak? >> quite extraordinary really, seeing, keir starmer cosying up with, natalie elphicke and all this . i with, natalie elphicke and all this. i wonder if, she's been

offered something nice. >> well, let's speak now to hugh merriman, he's a transport minister. conservative mp, of course, hugh, what what on earth is going on within the conservative party that a fairly right wing tory mp, one of the most vocal of your colleagues on small boats, has seen fit to join the labour party ? join the labour party? >> well, i find it bizarre. i've seen some spectacles in this place over my years, but that was a new bar that natalie has set, and it's extraordinary because she has been nothing but sharp and castigated keir starmer and labour over their policies on brexit, on immigration, which i agree with her and now to see her sitting behind keir starmer , is a sort behind keir starmer, is a sort of bizarre situation and not for great politics, quite frankly, where people send us here with a set of principles and expect us to carry them forward, and then we just take opportunistic moves, then that whole patter on the doorstep of you're just in it for yourself. i'm afraid

natalie has just rather, sort of confirmed that she certainly is. i mean, hugh, she is right, though, that the conservative government have so far failed when it comes to controlling the borders. >> they have so far failed when it comes to stopping small boat crossings. and they have failed to an extent on housing. >> well, i mean, her point where she wrote an article for the daily mail which was entitled don't trust labour on immigration, they really want open borders was a fair one. so she has to justify how she can castigate labour for not backing the rwanda plan, for not backing all the measures we've put in place to control small boats and bnng place to control small boats and bring those numbers down. they have been brought down by a third in a year, and now she goes from castigating the labour party for their soft touch on immigration to now backing it. and that matters to me because i'm a south coast mp just down the south coast from natalie , the south coast from natalie, and i know how important it is that we bring in a deterrent effect to stop the small boats, stop people losing their lives. you know, natalie can't say one thing and then go and do

another. otherwise it's a plague on all our houses as mps. >> what if natalie is just simply sticking to her true conservative principles, and she's joining a party that has criticised the tory party for raising taxes? she's criticised the tory party for blocking businesses, being able to build , businesses, being able to build, whether it's new energy or wind turbines or housing. she's been very vocal on the lack of planning reform from this government. it could be that the labour party comes in and brings about the biggest reform since margaret thatcher, in terms of letting businesses get on and do things without the need for government permission . well, government permission. well, look, if you if you don't take my view in terms of natalie and her position, how bizarre this is, then take it from the labour debates that you'll actually see of mp after mp on the labour side. >> absolutely going for natalie elphicke because they don't agree with what she says and she didn't agree with what their policies were and now she sits with them. so that's the greatest evidence you'll actually find. don't take my

view from it. just watch it. it's complete hypocrisy. everyone knows it's hypocrisy . everyone knows it's hypocrisy. you can't get elected, you know, with strong views on brexit, on immigration, on on other matters and get those conservative voters voting for you. and then the labour party is now an awfully join them. >> the labour party does appear to be an awfully broad church at the moment. you've got zarah sultana and then natalie elphicke, very broad church indeed. elphicke, very broad church indeed . but hugh, let's be frank indeed. but hugh, let's be frank here, doesn't look good for the conservative party, does it? what's your majority now ? gone what's your majority now? gone from about 80 to 40. >> 38. >> 38. >> now 38 is your majority. yes >> now 38 is your majority. yes >> look, i don't think it looks good for politics. quite frankly , it's above party politics to me. when you're elected by your constituents who let's be honest, they're not voting for us as individuals. for natalie elphicke, hugh merriman, they're voting for us as conservatives and who they want as their prime minister. and when you just jump ship for the sake of your point, they voted for boris johnson as prime minister.

>> by that argument, natalie elphicke says in her statement that the elected prime minister was removed in a coup by rishi sunak. >> well, in that case, she should have jumped ship some time previously. again, that doesn't stack up, you know, why has she actually gone through two leadership rounds, voted herself in it, and then decided that actually, that was all wrong. she shouldn't be in that party. i mean, it doesn't stack up. any reasonable person watching this will see it's all about her. she's decided to jump ship because she's obviously got something that she thinks will advance her career. but the whole of politics doesn't advance when people don't stick with their set of principles. you cannot change from being a conservative mp to a labour mp.

news. >> good afternoon. britain it's 2:00 on wednesday, the 8th of may. >> another tory mp defects to labourin >> another tory mp defects to labour in a hammer blow to rishi sunak. labour in a hammer blow to rishi sunak . natalie elphicke says her sunak. natalie elphicke says her former party has become a byword

former party has become a byword for incompetence and division. we've got more analysis and reaction to come and record high levels of immigration have failed to boost britain's economy should be returned to the tens of thousands. >> that's according to a new report, much more on that and a double royal snub for prince harry during his trip to the uk. >> first, he's told the king is too busy to meet him. then he discovers he's being replaced by prince william as the head of the army air corps. >> it is pretty stunning news that in the last couple of years, we've now had three defections from the conservatives to the labour party. add that to a number of by elections and some suspensions, too , as well as suspensions, too, as well as defections to other parties like reform and reclaim. briefly, although andrew bridgen is now sitting as an independent, all

of that churn means that that 80 seat majority won by boris johnson in 2019 is now just a 38 seat majority. >> and call me a cynic, tom, but i think election? facing a general election? >> wasn't it jacob rees—mogg, who once called rishi sunak a socialist? well, yes. perhaps if you're if you're a member of parliament for a party that has raised the tax burden , that has raised the tax burden, that has presided over a lack of brexit reforms, that hasn't repealed all of those eu directives, that hasn't been able to get through any significant privatisation, actually is nationalised more train lines than, than, than anything that it's privatised in the last few years , you could the last few years, you could make the argument that this government isn't particularly conservative. so why not throw your lot in with the other guys? >> here we go. tom harwood asking you if you think the

conservative party is socialist, and therefore it makes no difference whether natalie elphicke defects to the labour party. >> i think i think i think you can make a strong argument that tony blair's government was more conservative than this government on levels of tax , on government on levels of tax, on levels of spend, on, attitude towards regulation and introduction of markets within, pubuc introduction of markets within, public services. i think you could make the argument that tony blair was to the right of this government. >> i think the argument against thatis >> i think the argument against that is that, at least most conservative mps, at least the ones we speak to, do want taxes to go down. they do want to be more conservative. >> no they don't. >> no they don't. >> but when liz truss reduced taxes, it when liz truss abolished the top rate of tax from 45 to 40, the level it was under tony blair, tory mps rebelled in the context of pandemic and crippling debt, i should say. but let us know what you think. i mean, andrew says here will the last tory mp out please turn off the lights ? please turn off the lights? thank you, so there you go. let us know. gbnews.com/yoursay you

say, has natalie elphicke moved from one socialist party to another ? another? >> well, let's get much more after your headlines . after your headlines. >> tom, thank you very much. and good afternoon. the top stories. the conservative mp for dover stunned her colleagues this afternoon, crossing the floor and joining the labour party. natalie elphicke blamed her decision on what she called the broken promises of rishi sunaks tired and chaotic government. it is the latest in a dramatic drop in the government's working majority since the last general election, from more than 80 seats to less than 50. today's defection was announced by sir keir starmer just moments before prime minister's questions , as prime minister's questions, as if one week a tory mp who's also a doctor , says the prime a doctor, says the prime minister can't be trusted with the nhs and joins labour. >> and the next week the tory mp

for dover on the front line of the small boats crisis, says the prime minister cannot be trusted with our borders and joins laboun with our borders and joins labour. what is the point of this failed government ? this failed government? staggering on. >> the prime minister steered clear of labour's newest mp and instead paid tribute to the now former mayor of the west midlands. >> let me join with him . in >> let me join with him. in congratulating all knew and paying congratulating all knew and paying tribute to all former councillors, pccs and mayors across the country. i hope his i hope his new ones do him as proud as i am of all of mine. mr speaken proud as i am of all of mine. mr speaker, great leaders , great speaker, great leaders, great leaders like andy street, great leaders like andy street, great leaders like andy street, great leaders like andy street who leave behind a strong legacy of more homes, more jobs, and more investment in sharp contrast to the legacy left by the last labour government . which was labour government. which was a letter joking that there was no money left. >> speaking shortly after defecting , miss elphicke says

defecting, miss elphicke says there's a brighter future under a labour government . a labour government. >> in 2019, the conservatives stood on a manifesto that was very much centre ground. but under rishi sunak they've abandoned the centre ground and broken many election promises. meanwhile, under keir starmer, labour have changed and i think that change is going to bring a much better future for our country. and that's why i'm so keen to join the labour party and play my part in bringing that important future forward . that important future forward. >> to other news, scotland's first new first minister has appointed kate forbes as his deputy. the former finance secretary says she's deeply honoured to accept the invitation. miss forbes, who ran against humza yousaf for the top job, takes over from shona robison, who remains in cabinet in another position. social media companies are being warned that they could be banned for those under the age of 18 if they don't keep children safe. the media regulator ofcom says platforms must take action to stop their algorithms,

recommending harmful content to children. it's draft children's safety codes of practice sets out how it expects some of the world's biggest online platforms to protect children online, and penalties for companies who fail to comply. energy security and net zero secretary claire coutinho told . gb news the uk coutinho told. gb news the uk aims to be the safest in the world. when i was children's minister i looked at wellbeing and one of the things that i was really interested in was the link between how much time our children are spending online and their mental health. >> and for me, there was two things. it's what they could access and i'm really pleased that we're doing the online safety legislation because that that will tackle that part. but it's what it's stopping it's also what it's stopping them doing. that's the things them doing. so that's the things that about. i definitely that i care about. i definitely welcome government's efforts to act make sure that act on this and make sure that we're the safest place in the country when it comes to sorry in the world. when it comes to being online for children, two thirds of nhs trusts are missing their target to treat patients within 18 weeks of referral . within 18 weeks of referral. >> that's according to analysis by labour. the party says 114

trusts out . of 167 have failed trusts out. of 167 have failed to meet the target in any month since december 2019. trust the meant to ensure that 92% of patients are treated within 18 weeks of gp referral. most trusts also failed to meet targets, ensuring that most patients wait less than four hours in a&e departments . rail hours in a&e departments. rail passengers are facing more travel disruption due to ongoing strikes by train drivers, making it the longest ever dispute in the rail industry. members of aslef are walking out, affecting services across england, wales and scotland. the few services that are running will start later and finish earlier than usual. aslef says its members haven't had a pay rise in five years, and accuses the government of giving up trying to resolve the dispute . now to to resolve the dispute. now to my hometown. visitors to brighton's iconic pier will soon be forced to pay for admission , be forced to pay for admission, even amid a steep rise in maintenance costs. the pier's management says the cost of maintaining and repairing the

grade two listed landmark has soared by 31, adding around £27 million to the annual budget . million to the annual budget. visitors will now be asked to pay visitors will now be asked to pay an entry fee of £1, though local residents will be exempt . local residents will be exempt. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. carmelites now back to tom and . emily. >> good afternoon britain. it's 2:08 now. the conservative mp for dover, or should i say former conservative mp for doven former conservative mp for dover, natalie elphicke, has defected to the labour party . defected to the labour party. >> yes, it's the latest blow for rishi sunak. elphicke says keir starmer's party looks to the future. building a britain of hope, optimism, opportunity and fairness and platitudes. >> well ,

fairness and platitudes. >> well, we're joined now by the deputy editor of conservativehome, henry hill and henry. no one saw this coming . henry. no one saw this coming. >> no, it's really, of all the defections, quite a baffling one, because natalie elphicke, as he was saying in an earlier segment, has traditionally been quite a right wing tory mp. and you read her statements and it's all over the place. apparently she's crossing to, the labour party because the tories have abandoned the centre ground. >> but she's also furious that the tories have, staged a coup against liz truss, who is nobody's idea of a centre ground prime minister. whether you love her or loathe her. >> so it's a very strange decision. >> and again, on on small boats, being angry at the government for failing to get a grip on small boats. >> absolutely. but thinking that labour has a, has a, has a solution on small boats. if it is, they're keeping very quiet about it. they keep talking about it. they keep talking about how they're going to clear the backlog and so on. >> but everything that they've said suggests that really what that means is they're going to

wave a load of people through, you know, approve a load of people staying and therefore get the numbers down. so it is a very strange decision. >> i mean, henry, it's all rather unconvincing , isn't it? rather unconvincing, isn't it? we saw that little short clip of, of natalie making her statement. she looked a bit a little bit nervous , a little bit little bit nervous, a little bit shaky, a little bit of a hostage situation. it seemed to be. but, if what she's saying here that the party isn't centre ground enough, i mean, there's lots of conservative mps who will tell you that she was very much on the right wing of the party. so what is this centre ground she's talking about? >> yeah, i've got no idea , >> yeah, i've got no idea, because also both of the big things that she leads on in her statement, housing and, illegal immigration, the only way around those is a big break from the historic status quo. right? like progressives criticised the rwanda scheme . but you need rwanda scheme. but you need something to stop people getting here and staying here in essentially unlimited numbers. housing you need a huge break with the political centre where it's been for the last henry on

that point. >> yeah, on that point, i put it to you that this is much more about housing than it is about migration. i'm looking at the statement in front of me about three times the length of this statement is dedicated to housing issues, than it is about borders and migration, which only gets three sentences in the whole two page letter, i put it to you that natalie elphicke supported boris johnson , who supported boris johnson, who wanted to reform the planning system, wanted to build lots of houses, proposed a white paper on it that was , of course, on it that was, of course, defeated after an uncomfortable by—election, but but perhaps there is more method to the madness than everyone is suggesting . that the big thing suggesting. that the big thing that's convinced her is keir starmer's promise to bulldoze through planning regulations. perhaps she thinks he's more free market than the current government . government. >> i think the problem is that if you read natalie elphick's, positions on housing, and she's written quite extensively on this, including for conservative home building, millions of

housesis home building, millions of houses is not at the top of her list. she's one of those people whose primary method of dealing with the crisis is even more government backed loans for first time buyers to get them on the housing ladder , which means the housing ladder, which means obviously pumping even more credit into a supply shortage . credit into a supply shortage. she has written that the private rental experiment has failed, and that the only two forms of housing that we should be looking at is owner occupation and social housing, which implies a huge increase in social housing. she backs rent freezes, in order to try and protect renters . protect renters. >> henry then she's not a right winger at all, is she? >> you're saying that she's been this massive right winger? you're being disingenuous. you've just listed a bunch of socialist policy. >> she's not going to be looking to the labour party for free market policy. >> well, let's let's listen to what henry has just said, because, henry, you've just listed the many, many ways in which natalie elphicke is not a right winger at all. >> i'd say i'd say on this issue, she's absolutely not. generally, i'd say she was, especially on immigration and other issues, read her historic

statements on immigration, especially about the labour party's policies. she was generally on the right of the party. but sadly, as you well know, tom, lots of tory mps who are otherwise very right wing in various ways have a huge blind spot when it comes to housing and will support almost any policy that allows them to believe that the solution is not simply building millions of houses and i think that's where natalie elphicke is now. i've been worried for a while about whether or not labour will live up to its promises on housing, as you know, i'm a complete fanatic on the subject, and if starmer is head hunting tory nimbys whose ideas are let's pump in even more demand. let's take more state control of our housing stock. that's a really bad sign . bad sign. >> i mean, so, henry, if what she's saying in her letter that she's saying in her letter that she's looking for a party of hope and opportunity and she's disenfranchised, a disenchanted with the government's , with the government's, government's position on migration and housing, etc, etc, what else could this be about, if that's all? not really true,

what could this be about? what's in it for her? >> i think tom's right. i think it's housing, she says in her statement that she has been offered an opportunity to work with keir and others on developing labour's housing policy, and she has taken a strong interest in the subject before. so if you think right, this government, for better or worse, is more or less abandoned. housing you know, you've got michael reform, maybe, going to mess up the leasehold market again before the end of the parliament. but that's about it. if you've got an interest in the subject, you can see this as effectively a way of trying to get in. well, i mean, otherwise you think this is about housing policy really ? is about housing policy really? i mean, otherwise, yeah. she's not standing at the election. right. so she's not defending her seat by switching to labour, which would probably be a fairly solid way of holding it if she chose to do that, the immigration policy doesn't make sense at all because labour's immigration policy, as natalie elphicke has, self has said, is a nonsense . the idea, all the a nonsense. the idea, all the all the stuff about hope and change and everything that's that's standard boilerplate. you never get a political statement

that doesn't have those things in it. so just look at her own words. what does her statement focus on? it focuses on immigration, which it has to because she's the mp for dover. and then it focuses on housing, something in which she has been very heavily involved, both in parliament and with outside groups on which she has written extensively. if this is a way of angung extensively. if this is a way of angling to have a job, maybe as angling to have a job, maybe as an adviser or a quangocrats , an adviser or a quangocrats, after labour have taken over in the housing space, i think that's more plausible. >> that makes sense. >> that makes sense. >> that makes sense. >> that makes sense , thank you >> that makes sense, thank you very much. henry hill, deputy editor of conservative home. really great to get your perspective on all of this. goodness me, there's a lot to digest, i think. >> no , i completely agree with >> no, i completely agree with you. self—interest. but we also know that the labour party wants to create all of these new quangos to oversee all different areas of policy and overview. what politicians are doing, perhaps , perhaps she's been perhaps, perhaps she's been offered a job, isn't it? >> more and more bureaucracy . >> more and more bureaucracy. >> more and more bureaucracy. >> so we listen to what the leader of the labour party has had to say. this afternoon. keir starmer was speaking just some minutes ago , delighted to minutes ago, delighted to

welcome natalie elphicke to the labour party. >> she's got a strong track record on issues such as housing. she's on the front line when it comes to the crisis of small boats, and the reason that she's given for joining the labour party is very, very important because i think she speaks for very many tory voters in saying that the tory party has changed and it's left the centre ground. but equally, the labour party has changed and we are very clearly the party of the national interest of country first, party second and i look forward to working with her on the mission to deliver the real change that this country desperately needs . desperately needs. >> it's really interesting here. of course, keir starmer loves the optics of this. he will be delighted how upset the left of his party is getting over this. it will make him seem much more centre ground perhaps than his previous positions have been. it will make him seem like a

unifier . and the more angry that unifier. and the more angry that agitators on the left of his party get, i suppose the happier he'll be. >> i mean, surely it won't just be the left of the party that her anger about this. surely there's going to be lots of middle ground labour mps who don't particularly like keir starmer plucking a right wing conservative mp from the conservative mp from the conservative party just because it's a in a bit of a pickle. well, hey, anyway, let us know what you think . what you think. >> why don't we speak to a former labour mp? former minister? indeed denis macshane can join us now. dennis this all looks very, very grubby . looks very, very grubby. >> oh, for heaven's sake. >> oh, for heaven's sake. >> i mean, i remember two years before 1997, when tony blair was elected a tory mp, stratford upon avon, alan howarth , very upon avon, alan howarth, very nice, rather cerebral, i'd say. >> i mean, natalie elphicke wolf is a much more raw person. he crossed over to labour. >> that was the only one. >> that was the only one. >> some others came over after 1970. >> we had dan poulter, a doctor , >> we had dan poulter, a doctor, coming across because the nhs is

collapsing under sunak and i've got natalie elphicke, who i completely agree is a much rawer, a tougher politician . i rawer, a tougher politician. i mean, a very interesting background. >> her husband was a long serving mp for dover, problems with the law with sexual assaults and so on. >> she'd heard he was convicted and yes, was he not he? >> i don't think that's got anything to do with her, if i may say so. >> no, but lots of members of your party, dennis, have been saying that she was rather derisory towards victims of sexual assault. >> and it's really sort of flies in the face of many women that she is now being welcomed with open arms into the labour party, which is supposed to for stand up victims. >> well, it's very sweet. >> well, it's very sweet. >> now , i suppose that's >> now, i suppose that's a conservative line to , start conservative line to, start attacking natalie. elphicke. >> i didn't remember anybody and l, >> i didn't remember anybody and i, you know, regularly on gb news and read all the other papers on the right, questioning her before. look when you're

just putting to you what some labour members are saying, i'm sure i'm sure they may well be saying that i am just reacting. i've seen stuff i don't agree with. i didn't agree with my friend john bad when he crossed over to the tories, before 2019, or my colleague and neighbour kevin barron in rotherham when he went over to theresa may on the brexit issue. >> some people impelled to do that. >> but i can tell you, when you're in the front line yourself and the enemy lines open and one of their captains walks over to your side, you don't say, oh, i didn't like what you were saying last week or last year . or last year. >> you are just it just proves that you're in the right place . that you're in the right place. >> and poor mr sunak is in a very, very bad place . very, very bad place. >> should there be a by—election here? i mean, the people of dover and deal didn't vote for a labour mp, did they? it seems a bit rum . bit rum. >> that question is always put the answer. >> it seems to be it never actually is the answer that the interviewer who's putting the question, emily, you're putting

it very fairly and squarely, but it's been put to 100 times to go on and answer it. people labour, people who come across. i don't think it's necessary. you have an election, you elect that person . if he or she changes her person. if he or she changes her mind because of the way your her his own government behave like john madden did, like kevin barron did. >> a lot of people vote for the rosette, don't they? a lot of people vote for the colour of the rosette. >> that's that's perfectly true . >> that's that's perfectly true. >> that's that's perfectly true. >> i just think that it's extraordinary. >> what is it? is it a full week? >> and we've had two, defection lie—ins. that didn't happen in the run up to tony blair becoming pm. this is a party in complete and utter decomposition, and, it's not good for the country. trust me. >> i've just been interviewed by a french journalist for an hour, and i said my hope and prayer. >> is that in opposition , the >> is that in opposition, the conservative party recover. >> what? once they were, they go down the french road. a real horrible right wing extremism that labour's guaranteed two

terms. >> goodness me. well denis macshane, thank you so much for joining us and talking through what is a sensational afternoon in british politics here in westminster. really appreciate your time . thank you. your time. thank you. >> i'm not convinced this benefits the labour party ehhen benefits the labour party either. really. oh i think it does.i either. really. oh i think it does. i mean i guess it does perhaps to the general. what do you think? let us know at home. gbnews.com/yoursay >> i think the majority of voters aren't political obsessives . most people aren't obsessives. most people aren't glued to the television watching every twist and turn of day to day politics. it's what people might hear and it might be actually only a slice of the of the electorate that even notices that there's been a tory mp that has defected. but that might be the only line that they hear. they won't look into the history of the statements, or if it's ideologically consistent, they'll hear, oh, a few tories have turned labour now. they'll just get this general sense maybe, yeah, maybe . maybe, yeah, maybe. >> vie i guess those who are looking for a labour party with, some kind of rigorous ideological grounding, perhaps

wouldn't agree. but yes, most people are just looking for a party to vote for. not necessarily, they don't necessarily, they don't necessarily need to know exactly what type of politician natalie elphicke was. >> no. and i think most people don't really want a labour party that's sort of rigidly ideological, most voters probably look for something a bit more pragmatic, but as we've seen, lots of, lots of labour mps aren't best pleased. >> i imagine, with this might be the difficulty might come further down the line with party management more than, immediate pr effects. >> but coming up, social media sites could be banned for under eighteens if they fail to comply with new regulations. but should it fall on to parents protect their children online? that's their children online? that's the debate we'll be having after this short

break. >> all right. it's 226 in the afternoon. you're watching . afternoon. you're watching. listening to good afternoon, britain. now, lots of you have been getting in touch about this defection, about natalie elphicke moving to the labour party from the conservative party. anton says if an mp defect , they should become an defect, they should become an independent. simples. he says i do think it's rather odd that you don't necessarily have to then have a by—election when the people didn't, didn't elect you. >> yes, of course, there have been two principled politicians in the last decade who have both called by elections when they defected . they were douglas defected. they were douglas carswell and mark reckless, both defecting from the conservatives to ukip. but they called by elections . and actually it was elections. and actually it was the best thing that they could have possibly done because they won those by elections and it was a huge pr coup for the party. it showed that they could actually win. it's a bit odd that there aren't by elections happening for all the defections that are going on right now. >> yes. well, maybe they're more concerned that they wouldn't , or concerned that they wouldn't, or because perhaps we're so close to a general election, maybe that's the get out excuse, allen says. good work. denis macshane .

says. good work. denis macshane. we keep reminding the country about that disaster. tony blair andrew says breaking news. >> starmer has crossed the floor. wait, no, he only got halfway and changed his mind. well, this is the thing i think it makes . it makes. >> i think and perhaps i think some people will see this as you know, keir starmer not being particularly principled either. i do take your point that most people aren't watching this, you know, with their spectacles out with a magnifying glass going through absolutely everything. but i do think it does look a tad on principle that you're happy to have a conservative mp who's known as being extremely right wing by at least her colleagues and just to, you know, nab her up. >> i do think that starmer has made the calculated decision and made the calculated decision and made it some time ago that he's going to take the hit for being unprincipled and would rather say, he say whatever is popular on any given day and think that that's probably better for his political career than sticking by what he said, three years ago, or even perhaps three weeks ago. yeah, i mean, megan agrees

with me. >> she says emily's correct defections don't benefit the opposition. it just makes them all look like hypocrites. yes, i think it just makes the whole the commons and the politics and all the machinations and everything. >> but then, doesn't that feed into the change narrative that the labour party want to present? if it makes all politicians look like crooks , politicians look like crooks, then oh, get out the government. let's get a different government that sort of feeds into that sort of idea. >> they're all part of it. they're all part of it. i think it just breeds apathy, because, you know, you vote for someone and then you find out that they're they're switching over . they're they're switching over. >> but hey, no, it is. it is an interesting point, though, and i come back to this idea of, of housing being what has actually pushed her over the line because it is remarkably, everyone's talking about the borders and the boats in this entire two page, resignation or defection statement. you have maybe two, three sentences, max, on small boats. that's it . of the whole boats. that's it. of the whole thing. three sentences. >> okay, maybe it's a pitch for

a housing job. i you know, i can't escape the feeling that this is all about self—interest, but , you know, i don't know for but, you know, i don't know for sure, but, let us know what you make of it. i mean, john says, how low can they go? how low can they go? he's using they they, you know, sort of attitude . all you know, sort of attitude. all of them. yeah. all of them are the same, which i don't think that's fair necessarily. but you can see why people feel that way, can't you. >> you certainly can. it does. it does seem like a very curious one. and i suppose the question one. and i suppose the question on everyone's lips now here in westminster , where we've had westminster, where we've had three defections straight from the labour party , from the tory the labour party, from the tory party to the labour party, the question will be who's next? will there be any more? >> well, anton says the crossing of the house by tory mps is a simple conservative plan to infiltrate the labour party and establish a fifth column in their ranks. i mean, anton, that's a wild suggestion , but, that's a wild suggestion, but, you know, it's a it's a view . you know, it's a it's a view. it's a view. it's a possibility, it's a view. it's a possibility, isupposeif it's a view. it's a possibility, i suppose if you had 200 conservative mps defect, they could take control of the labour party, dislodge keir starmer . i

party, dislodge keir starmer. i mean, there's i mean, it's a it's a wild, madcap scheme, but, perhaps desperate times call for desperate measures. >> well, we've got lots more on this and everything else that we're talking about today, including that immigration report in just one tick. but let's get your headlines . let's get your headlines. >> good afternoon. the top stories . the conservative mp for stories. the conservative mp for dover stunned her colleagues this afternoon, crossing the floor and joining the labour party . natalie elphicke blamed party. natalie elphicke blamed her decision on what she called the broken promises of rishi sunak's tired and chaotic government. it is the latest in a dramatic drop in the government's working majority since the last general election , since the last general election, from more than 80 seats to less than 50. miss elphicke says there's a brighter future under a labour government . a labour government. >> in 2019, the conservatives stood on a manifesto that was very much centre ground. but under rishi sunak they've abandoned the centre ground and broken many election promises.

meanwhile, under keir starmer, labour have changed and i think that change is going to bring a much better future for our country. and that's why i'm so keen to join the labour party and play my part in bringing that important future forward . that important future forward. >> and two other news scotland's new first minister has appointed kate forbes as his deputy. the former finance secretary says she's deeply honoured to accept the invitation. miss forbes, who ran against humza yousaf for the top job, takes over from shona robison, who remains in cabinet in another position . social in another position. social media companies are being warned that they could be banned for those under the age of 18 if they don't keep children safe. the media regulator ofcom says platforms must take action to stop their algorithms recommending harmful content to children or face stiff penalties . in two thirds of nhs trusts are missing their target to treat patients within 18 weeks of referral . that's according to

of referral. that's according to analysis by the labour party. the party says that 114 trusts out of 167 have failed to meet the target in any month since december 2019. the government says wait times in a&e are improving despite record demand over the winter months . for the over the winter months. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or go to gb news. com slash alerts

i >> -- >> good afternoon. britain. it's 2:36. now, prince harry has come to the uk to celebrate the 10th anniversary of the invictus games. >> yes, a service of thanksgiving is being held this afternoon at saint paul's

cathedral . that's to commemorate cathedral. that's to commemorate the decade long support competitors in the tournament have received. >> well. there was speculation that the duke of sussex would make time to visit his father, but a spokesman for prince harry said his majesty's full program meant there was no time to get together. >> yes. so he's essentially saying his father has, has snubbed him there. well, gb news royal correspondent cameron walker joins us now, royal correspondent cameron walkerjoins us now, camera royal correspondent cameron walker joins us now, camera , royal correspondent cameron walkerjoins us now, camera , do walker joins us now, camera, do you reckon that the king just doesn't fancy meeting him , that, doesn't fancy meeting him, that, too much has happened ? too much has happened? >> well, i think there's two points to this. i think the first is that, of course, the royal family. you have to remember, is not like any other family. and it does actually take a lot of logistics and planning for various members to meet up with each other. and in fact, buckingham palace in the last couple of hours has announced that the king is very busy tomorrow at an event as colonel in chief of the royal engineers. but you would have thought, wouldn't you? i think to your eye, that there would be at some point, perhaps ten minutes in the diary to meet his

youngest son. but we have had that confirmed that that is not the case now. prince harry arrived in the uk yesterday. he was at some invictus events yesterday afternoon , and this yesterday afternoon, and this afternoon at saint paul's cathedral is the service of thanksgiving at saint paul's cathedral for his invictus games. he set his up ten years supporting wounded veterans from across the world in their recovery through paralympic style competitions around the world. and he will, of course, want the focus to be very much on that. but inevitably, as you alluded to, there , emily, the alluded to, there, emily, the spotlight has shifted, unfortunately, this morning to the fact that it has been confirmed that king charles will not be meeting prince harry while he is in the uk. his spokesperson, prince harry's spokesperson, prince harry's spokesperson, confirmed that to me yesterday and also said that prince harry totally understands that king charles has a very, very busy diary as sovereign . it very busy diary as sovereign. it was a very kind of warm statement. it read a little bit like a royal press release, which is in big contrast to a statement, perhaps, that he would have got a couple of years ago from the sussex camp. if you

remember , back in 2021, where remember, back in 2021, where the late queen stripped both prince harry and meghan of their royal patronages and military appointments, they released a statement and the key line of that statement was service is universal now. friends said that that was in the context of their charity work. critics suggested that perhaps it was a bit of a snub and a bit of a disrespect to the late queen, and also it was a bit bitter. yesterday's statement from harry's spokesperson complete opposite, very warm , very understanding, very warm, very understanding, suggesting to me that prince harry really wants to make an effort here to mend relationships with his father and by extension, the rest of the royal family here in the united kingdom . now kensington united kingdom. now kensington palace this morning and buckingham palace have not commented on anything to do with the duke of sussex . prince harry the duke of sussex. prince harry is the only senior member of the royal family. if you go by line of succession, who is expected to appear here this afternoon , to appear here this afternoon, king prince william will not be here. as i said, they have a joint engagement next week and that timing of that announcement coincided with prince harry arriving in the uk yesterday.

could just be a coincidence. the cynic in me, and perhaps some have suggested online that this was an attempt, maybe that the king to show the strength of the relationship between the king and his oldest son, and also point out that prince harry and the king perhaps needs a little bit of work. but as i said, prince harry here very much for the invictus games. that's his focus . meghan remaining in focus. meghan remaining in california with their two children, but the two of them will be jointly in nigeria later this month , a country which this month, a country which hopes to host the invictus games in a couple of years time, and also to celebrate the culture of the country . meghan revealing also to celebrate the culture of the country. meghan revealing in her archetypes podcast last year that her mixed race heritage includes 43% nigerian, thank you very much indeed, cameron, really great to speak to you. thank you so much, cameron walker, there are gb news royal correspondent. yes. it's all a bit sad, isn't it? very sad. it's a family in turmoil, and i don't. >> i'm sorry, i don't believe this sort of stuff. yes. they're not a normal family. yes, of

course, it's difficult to have scheduling and whatever. they can't find half an hour for a cup of tea . i mean, it's not cup of tea. i mean, it's not like it's a formal event. i mean, when the king gets back home, prince harry could just drop around, say hi . i think drop around, say hi. i think there's more going on there than scheduling problems. i mean, there's lots of people who will tell you that the king simply does not trust his son, which is a horrible place to be. >> as a father. and i don't know if there's any sense of guilt from prince harry at all, whether there's an olive branch that's been passed, but it doesn't seem to be, does it? >> you'd think if there's anything that would bring a father and a son together, it's a diagnosis of cancer and, and that warm words would be said beyond platitudes that perhaps deeper conversations would be had . but it deeper conversations would be had. but it seems deeper conversations would be had . but it seems that that had. but it seems that that isn't taking place. >> well, it seems to have left them more estranged, more estranged than ever. and of course, the relationship between prince harry and prince william seems non—exist latent. and between the cousins, of course,

which is which is one of the saddest bits about all of this. anyway coming up, social media sites could be banned for under eighteens if they fail to comply with new regulations. but should this not be up to the parents? is it not the parents job, mom and dad's job to protect their children online? or is it the job of these big giant companies and regulation in the government? let

right. well. welcome back. it's 244. you're watching. listening to good afternoon, britain. now earlier in the show, we're talking. oh, we're going to be talking. oh, we're going to be talking about children's online safety first with matthew lesh from the institute of economic affairs. should it be up to to parents police children's internet use, or should it be to down tech firms, the government are essentially planning potentially there could be some kind of ban for under 18 seconds to use social media if they fail, if these giants fail to

comply with new regulations. yes. >> and ofcom, which is now in charge of regulating not just television but the internet too, has warned that tech firms face tougher online age checks under new rules, stating that firms must tame aggressive algorithms as they aim to crack down on children being exposed to what's described sometimes as harmful. content online. well, let's talk now with the director of public policy and communications at the institute of economic affairs, matthew lesh , matthew, first of matthew lesh, matthew, first of all, what is actually being proposed here? >> so what ofcom has announced today is their draft code of practice under the online safety bill, as it relates to how they expect big tech companies, to deal with children users. now, there's a lot of things in the way this has been reported today is around, some specific harms are things like, child exploitation material pornography , self—harm material

pornography, self—harm material and other kind of clear sets of, of harmful material on social media. and then there's a whole bunch of other requirements around the kind of settings they expect users to have. when or particularly children to have when, when using these services , when, when using these services, for example, being able to block being accessed to a group conversation on a social media platform so much, do you think this type of change, what's being proposed, will actually stop children from accessing nasty material? >> do you think it will keep them safer? will it protect them ? >> 7- >> look, i 7 >> look, i think we ? >> look, i think we should be quite sceptical that ofcom has this capacity and that it simply by changing a code of conduct, you can address all these sorts of issues. now there's a few problems here. the first problem here is that what ofcom is expecting is actually much broader than a lot of the reporting is suggesting. the expectation here is to protect children from all sorts of different sorts of harms and the definition of pretty harmful content , includes definition of pretty harmful content, includes things like material that targets race,

religion and gender reassignment. so you can easily see an expectation ofcom that i don't know, charlie hebdo cartoon is hidden and maybe some gender critical voices aren't accessible by children. so on the first instance, you've got this big risk of, i guess, over compliance or effectively censorship of online material. now this, this can happen, not only to children but to adults as well. since by default platforms are going to be expected to treat everyone , expected to treat everyone, every user, including adults, as children, unless they have some kind of id process. so unless you, let's say biometrically check someone's id aka you show your face to the company or you upload a photo that's on the excessive censorship side. on the other end of this, it's worth noting that the social media platforms already have policies against all the worst and meanest types of online content the things you don't want your kids to see online. the challenge here is the fact that the internet is a big place. there's a relentless amount of content going on on these platforms , and even using these platforms, and even using automated technologies, it's really hard to separate out what

you do and don't want people to see, it's not like there's this presumption in this debate that, oh , these big evil tech oh, these big evil tech companies want children to see all this terrible content . i all this terrible content. i don't think that's true. i think often they, in fact, lean too heavily onto censorship . heavily onto censorship. >> but the sue holderness it is true, because they want to keep children on their websites, on their platforms for as long as possible , so they make more possible, so they make more money. and by doing so, you want to pump , you pump out content to pump, you pump out content that's going to get kids watching for longer and longer and longer, and that often is nasty , vicious, potentially nasty, vicious, potentially harmful content. i mean, it's psychology , isn't it? you're psychology, isn't it? you're gnpped psychology, isn't it? you're gripped by something that brings you in, and it can be damaging for your psychology. i wonder if you're a little bit blase about this , matt. this, matt. >> look, i think there's definitely a risk here. and indeed, i think you're right that there is an incentive to try to keep children on the platforms as, as long as possible. on the other end of that, of course, there's the huge pr costs, public relations costs of showing children harmful material and the social media companies have seen this in recent history. now, your

definition of what might be harmful, i suppose, and the extent of harmful material might be far more extensive than what the platforms currently remove. and perhaps you want to make an argument they should be removing argument they should be removing a lot more legal content, because we might perceive it to because we might perceive it to be harmful to children. they haven't gone far enough in in their current censorious . their current censorious. >> be honest, matt, i think i think it should be. you know, parents should probably try and manage a little better the their children's use of these sites. thank you so much. matthew lesh from the institute of economic affairs . great to speak to you affairs. great to speak to you as always, good stuff. >> well, now it's been a very busy day politically. we've got, of course, a new government in scotland , but also a defection scotland, but also a defection down here, in westminster . let's down here, in westminster. let's speak to the former treasury special adviser, now director of government relations at the adam smith institute, james price, james, no one in westminster saw this, saw this defection coming . this, saw this defection coming. first of all, no, it's absolutely extraordinary. >> i mean, i think it's some of the mps who've been talking about this since i didn't know there was any space to the right of natalie, elphicke and all of a sudden she's gone and joined the labour party. >> right. it's a avowedly

socialist party in some ways anymore, but it's an absolutely extraordinary thing. and, you know, most of the people watching this today are a normal people. >> probably most of them won't be the kind of oddballs like me who've been a member of a of a political party for a long time. >> they've got more important, better things to be doing with their time. >> but for those of us who are members of political parties and give up time knocking on doors, handing out leaflets , all these handing out leaflets, all these sorts of things and really care about this stuff, the idea of moving from the conservative party to the labour party, i mean, this is upsetting a liverpool fan and going and supporting man united or arsenal to tottenham or something like that. >> it's incredible and not in a good way. >> it looks a bit grubby, doesn't it? a little bit dodgy. i also want to ask you, because you've been very busy in westminster today, you went to the launch of this report about immigration. now we spoke to neil o'brien, who's a conservative mp, former minister, who has co—authored this report with robert jenrick. the former immigration minister, and robert jenrick had some, he, he had some things to say. didn't he tell, tell us. be your reporter. >> well i happily i mean i don't think there's any risk of these two, defecting to the labour party any time soon. it was an excellent report , and it does

excellent report, and it does feel like there's been a bit of a sea change in talking about immigration. for a long time, i was someone that kind of believed in the idea that immigration was always a good thing. the more people you had from around the world, the more we'd be this kind of happy, cuddly brotherhood of man. and that would be a lovely place if i could still believe in that sort of stuff. unfortunately the kind of record numbers that we've seen is that report makes clear , net 700,000 people in one clear, net 700,000 people in one year and gross figures. so actually the number of new people coming in is something like 1.2 million people. last year was about what what does that make? about 500,000 people left the uk last year. so something like one in every 60 or so people that you'd bump into in the street in the united kingdom today has been entered into this country in the last 18 months or so, something like that. it is just extraordinary numbers. and that report says that things have to change and they want to have a cap and they want to have a sort of migration budget was one of the big things they said. so in the same way that once or twice a year the chancellor will come out and say, this is the fiscal policies. we're going to be doing. this is how much money we're going to spend on this, how much money we're going to

spend on that, that someone would have to come out and say, some might argue that this report is a little too little, too late, really. >> i mean, where were they ten, 20 years ago? migration has been at record levels for god knows how long. >> well, the really interesting thing the report points out is that every winning political party going all the way back to the 70s has been the party that said, we're going to cut migration . when david cameron migration. when david cameron came in, said that migration was going to be cut to the tens of thousands. and, well, it's what churchill might call a terminological inexactitude, isn't it? it certainly hasn't come to pass. and look , people come to pass. and look, people in this country don't resent the ukrainians, the hong kongers who've come here don't resent all the wonderful people who want to come and become british and make britain their home. right. my other half is american. you know, she's doing a real job at the moment, probably adding a lot more to this country than i am sat here. but, you know, these people we definitely want in this country. but there are far too many people coming now who don't seem to have that and haven't been assimilating very well. it's hard to do. >> no one wants to beat up your girlfriend. >> it's the right way to do this though. >> or because. because surely the government doesn't know what the government doesn't know what the business needs are. how can you do central control of this sort of thing?

>> as so often you put your finger on the difficulty here. who is the government to say that you can only bring in this many people who you can and can't hire? this is the problem. but the government has to not just look at the business case. as important as that is, it has to look at let's say, housing stock. even if every single person who wanted to come to the uk or who did come to the uk last year, was a new shakespeare , there isn't enough place to put these people right. so and all these other things , the all these other things, the children they bring over, are there enough school places when they get poorly? are there enough places for them in the nhs? you have to work out all of those and crucially, social cohesion and integration. >> two james, we're going to have to leave that there. sorry to finish off your sentence. you may or may not have come to that. james price from the adam smith institute. to great talk to you as ever. martin daubney you're in the studio. what's up next? >> right. so the defection of natalie elphicke. i'm not surprised. and i'll tell you why i went to a gb news live event in dover in october 2022. she was too afraid to even face her own electorate. she was booed and hissed when she came on a screen. i think this is an attempt. her career was going

off the white cliffs of dover. metaphorically, i think she's defecting to make out. well, it wasn't me, and she has to live in that area. i think this is a blatant act of self preservation from the from the from the viewpoint of her reputation. we'll have jonathan gullis in the studio. he'll be giving it both barrels. prince harry, of course, will appear at saint paups course, will appear at saint paul's cathedral. we'll have live pictures from that. and the eurovision song contest used to be about bucks fizz and laughing at the dodgy europeans . be about bucks fizz and laughing at the dodgy europeans. now it's trans politics and all about palestine. the eurovision song contest, the party is over and our divisive flag . our divisive flag. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> goodness me. well, we're looking forward to that , martin. looking forward to that, martin. we'll make sure that we leave the studio in a fit state for you.thank the studio in a fit state for you. thank you for letting us sit here for this unusual episode of good afternoon, britain from westminster this week, but we'll be back from paddington tomorrow . paddington tomorrow. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello there. welcome to your latest gb news weather update

brought to you by the met office. it should stay dry and bright for most of us through the rest of the day. we'll feel fairly warm in the sunshine once again, but there is some rain moving into northwestern areas of scotland . that's as a weather of scotland. that's as a weather front approaches these areas. it won't make too much progress though, as high pressure is building elsewhere across the country and that will bring plenty of dry weather through the rest of the week. for many areas of the uk, there will be some thicker cloud coming into parts of northern england, perhaps northern wales, through this evening, bringing some drizzly rain. that's the overspill from that weather front. but across the south it should stay dry and clear, could see some mist and fog developing in inland areas, perhaps along the coast as well . and it will the coast as well. and it will be another mild start to the day away from any rural areas of wales. we could see lows of 3 or 4 degrees, so a fairly bright start to thursday away from any of that mist and fog that will stay fairly wet through the morning. across the north—west of scotland, the rain should slowly start to ease as you head towards the afternoon here. elsewhere, another dry and bright day and i think it's going to be a warmer day on thursday than today. highs of 22

quite widely 24 possible in the best of the sunshine across central areas of england. eastern areas of wales as well . eastern areas of wales as well. another bright start to friday with the rain should start to clear away from northern areas of scotland through the day, so more of a widespread area of sunshine through the day on friday, temperatures rising into the weekend peaking around 26 degrees. but then we could start to see a further risk of showers on sunday. that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sperm answers of weather on

gb news. >> way . >> way. >> way. >> a very good afternoon to you. >> a very good afternoon to you. >> i'm so excited. >> i'm so excited. >> it's 3 pm. >> and welcome to the martin daubney show on gb news broadcasting live from the heart of westminster all across the uk on today's action packed show, natalie elphicke, the mp for doven natalie elphicke, the mp for dover, has dramatically defected

to labour, saying the tories have become a byword for incompetence and division. >> an honourable defection or a bitter act of revenge against rishi sunak and an act of reputational self—reflection. next, a new report by two former tory ministers is calling for the home office to be split up because it is allegedly incapable of controlling immigration. >> do they have a point or having spectacularly failed to control our borders themselves , control our borders themselves, or they merely looking for a scapegoat and prince harry's in london for a thanksgiving service today, but he has been hit with two massive snubs from the king in the past two days. >> is the ginger prince being frozen out of the royal family? that's all coming up in your next action packed hour. was one of those days. if you're into politics, this is the big gig. dramatic defection. we got

prince harry in london loads