>> the best i can do. we got inflation. we got foxconn. we got wisconsin. we got lawfare. did you go, are you a lawyer? kelly: no, unfortunately business school. brian: we're normally flush with lawyers. >> we spent all our time talking about law cases. talk about m2. brian: just for you we'll go to markets. we have lots of good market news. taylor: it is not m2 money supply but it is this. dow, nasdaq, s&p, lower. interest rates very much front and center. arm holdings after the bell. huge a.i. play, kelly, made me think of you. just for you. arm holdings after the bell. brian: we'll watch. say good-bye to charles? taylor: charles payne, you're up next. charles: great interview with larry. good afternoon, i'm

charles payne. this is "making money." breaking right now, stocks, we've seen a little bit of moxie but we're seeing major defensiveness. maybe this is why piper sandler at the beginning of the week said the relief rally is quote questionable at best. we have the author of that report at 2:15 i'm getting tremendous reaction to the economist asking if inflation is morally wrong. keep comments coming on cvpayne or on twitter/x. i will read some at 2:30. speak of the fed, cash car remember said rates will likely hold for a extended period of time. he brought out his inner paul volcker. he is determined it looks like. don't look know, reddit, reddit may save the ipo market. my take how unfair things have been, finally how you have run out of money. all that and so much more on "making money."

♪. charles: you can still feel the anxiety in the air, i know you can, right? this is the thing. this is the pandemic index, panic index, rather. this is the month of april. it erupted right? because listen we were down for the first time in a little while, like since last october. first time a lot of investors have faired any adversity, a lot of people headed for the hills. here's the then though. we have come down very dramatically since then but still, you can testimony again, there is a fair amount, let's call it fear. the fear and greed gauge. this thing has been stuck in fear for a long time. even after we had the big strong days, right? we had four or five days up pretty nicely. we've been in the fear gauge for sometime now. you got to wonder what is going on here. i don't necessarily think it is fear but i would say the action, the action in this market really turned defensive, right? look what is working right now, your traditional safe havens. only two areas gone to new

52-week highs, utilities, staples. those are the classic areas when you want to hide out. in fact, look at this thing. these are utility stocks, the xlu. 50% of them are at new highs, right? so new 24-week highs. that is where the money is going. the problem though, this will never, never lead the market higher. you say okay, there is a lot of fear, there is a lot of anxiety, what's happening? i don't know because here is the mixed signal. there options you can use to hedge in case the market will have a sharp pullback. they have disappeared. april everyone was loading up on them, maybe thinking the worst was over. april faded away. here we go. my next guest says the april showers seem to have brought mayflowers to the market. b. riley chief market strategist art hogan. art, the april selling scare it feels like it is over but it hasn't been replaced with the sort of oomph we had in the beginning of the year. >> yeah.

part of that scare heading into april we just had a run of about 26% on the s&p 500 off the october lows without a 2% correction along the way. so the market went unidirectionally higher that will be always looking for a reason to sell off. market delivered two distinct reasons to sell off. u.s. 10-year went up 40 basis points in 10 trading days. wti went up to 87 in four trading days. there were reasons behind that. energy spike was a catalyst of result of iran and israel tensions. that eased a bit. we had better-than-expected economic data. we had much larger of creation of jobs in the first quarter. we certainly saw a bit of a surprise in terms of inflation picking its head back up. i think both those things have dizzy -- dissipated. i feel like april heading into

may if those thing calmed down, if investors look at reporting season we'll calm down a bit. charles: let's look at that we're in the midst of that now. tremendous amount of earnings beasts. 80% on revenue. if you miss on revenue by even a small amount you're taken out to the woodshed. first quarter we're doing better than anticipated. wall street looking for eruption in earnings. i kind of like it when they look to go the other way. could this actually become a headwind if earnings don't come in as great as we anticipate now? >> yeah, it is interesting. during the quarterly earnings reports season estimates go higher not lower that typically confirms t tends to work the other way. finish or earnings reporting season estimates come down. we thought first quarter would being 3 1/2 to 4%. it is about 5% right now. i'm guessing if we continue to create jobs on a monthly basis and the economy continues trend better than the mean which the second quarter will already look like it will be about 4%

according to the atlanta fed, those estimates will like light when we head into the third quarter earnings season. charles: that would be something. barbell approach on one side. you have energy, financials and health care. what do they have all in common that make you comfortable being in right now? >> plenty of mean reversion. energy worst-performing sector in the s&p 500 last year. one of the best performing sectors in the s&p 500 this year. we like that a lot. still only 3% of s&p 500. we think that expands to 5% over next 12 to 18 months. financials again very poor performer last year. interest rates are coming into their favor. when you think about health care, unless you're glb drugmaker lake novartis or lily you have been ignored. i think health care has a leg up this year. charles: on the growth side you do have some criteria here. liquidity is strong, free cash flow, solid defensible leadership. i guess that is having a really big moat.

feels like when i look at these it takes us back to the "magnificent seven, maybe the top 10 stocks? >> to a certain extent that is where it falls in but we look at the "magnificent seven saying okay what hasn't performed this year? apple is good classic example of that. apple has a lot of important things to deliver. yesterday with the new ipads first time since june 2022. worldwide developers conference. what is important to remember about apple they're a fast follower. they haven't raised their hand what we do with a.i. you know they will in june. they will deliver something exciting we didn't know we needed in the fall buying cycle. it is multiple and certainly proven to be shareholder friendly use of cash in the last dividend. buybacks. >> you know, i got to tell you, art, the even, the right before they posted their numbers i did the show, we'll need more than a buyback announcement. little did i know it would be like $110 billion. i still think to your point we

better start hearing more about a.i. because apple has fallen out of favor. maybe to your point also, maybe that is why you want to buy it here. art thank you very much. appreciate it. >> thank you. charles: all right, my next guest says this being an election year changes everything, including the urge to sell in may and go away. nicholas wealth management president david nick last. david, what is so distinct for you this being an election year that would give us more confidence to stay in this market? >> charles, i can give you a 100 years of data shows you election years the market does very well. what is interesting when does the market do well? formally the back half. first half of the year some uncertainty. see some volatility for markets but it is the back half of the year we see markets take off. if you look at some years that were down, 2000, 2008 were the only two years where the market ended up down during an election year. what did we have? we were in the midst of pretty big recessions. we're not in that. this is the first year of a president's re-election term.

we actually have had a never year in market in first term of re-election campaign. i'm telling clients and investors fight the urge to sell. charles: one of the things you can say help fight the urge, bullish sign of s&p 500. this is the a day moving average. we -- 50-day moving average. we crashed below it. now we're above it. you like that we come back. how long do we stay there and start making new highs to get really, really bullish here? >> it is a great point. we, i want to see a multiweek close above the 50-day moving average before we get very confident but i think we're seeing breadth. i know it doesn't seem like that on the surface. eight out of 11 sectors trading above their 50-day moving average. you bring up utilities. utilities reestated are two highest yielding sectors s&p. they wouldn't be below averages. what is that telling us?

not just interest rates it is not just inflation. you have a safety versus risk play. when you see sector like real estate not performing well, i think that tells us there is credit fear for the markets for real estate. if they believed markets would go higher, utilities wouldn't be where they are. that is bullish sent men. charles: what is interesting for the last year, maybe two, the big mag-7 have become the defacto safe havens. looks like we're back to traditional safe havens. speaking of stock picks, i have saw your list, when david bowie and queen got together recorded under pressure. these are names we know. they're under fair amount of pressure. the only company with more bad news about tesla is boeing. you say this is an opportunity to buy it though? >> you are spot on. i love a sale. i don't like a sale at target because my wife has a great time. outside of target i like sales on stocks. when i go buying. meta is down 10% from its highs.

palantir is down 20%. tesla down 40% from its highs. these are not failing companies. these are companies slowing significantly. they are still growing revenues top line and bottom line. you want to go shopping the time to get in the names now which is why we're putting money at work. charles: david, let me ask you a about a name i played on and off for 15 years. viva systems. it is not on my radar. i seen your list. you have a six month chart. gargantuan gap. must be earnings related beginning of april. why would you start to buy this stock here now? >> yep. great point. if you've been a long-term investor in the stock you can be very frustrated. here is why i think it is a good time to put new money to work, look at the life sciences sector i do like this sector but if you look at the way viva is going. it is an addressable market. they are minority in the market of 12, 13% on a market continuing to grow. think about economy beginning to

slowing, life sciences we'll see higher growth relative to the rest of the economy. veeva is a name in that sector. if you have money to work i think a year or two -- charles: i like fundamental value proposition stories to go along with technical analysis. david, thank you so much, my friend, talk to you soon. >> thanks, charles. charles: obviously my friends caution is in the airplane. my next guest said the recent relief rally it is questionable. we have jailing from piper sandler to explain it all to you. you might want to buckle up for this one. we'll be right back. ♪.

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those who are still with us, yes. grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. charles: so there's a headline that grabbed my attention on monday, right? the relief rally is questionable at best and stocks finish the-year lower from here says piper sandler? well obviously we had to get to the person who came up with this report. joining me now piper sandler's chief market technician craig johnson. i read your report. what i read it said it was too early to say if friday's stock market rally could become more

than a relief rally. you would prefer to see a wait-and-see approach. did this article take certain liberties here? >>, charles that is exactly right. what we've been seeing for this entire year 2024 obviously an election year, we're expecting this market to define a high level trading range, hltr. this market will end up stuck in a range. somewhere around 5200 at the upper end, 46, 4800 at the lower end and over the near term here we think the market needs to correct further and chop around in this range. when i look at this market, when i look at what your brier guests talked about, charles, the composition of this advance off the lows we're seen a week or so ago, being led by electric utilities, being led by staples, led by financials and you're not seeing tech really drive this market higher like we've seen

before. too early to call it anything but a relief rally. charles: of course that growth sector has been phenomenal. in your report, something caught my eye is seasonality. we have may which is a little bit historically a bullet more negative than positive but looks like the rest of the summer might not be a bad time to be in the market. if someone is looking for a few weeks or a couple of months to trade, would that be an okay period to at least hang in? >> well, there will be some trading opportunities. we're still overweight tech. we're not saying to people that you need to exit all your tech or exit any of those names. i think you need to be a lot more selective through the summer months coming up. but again, keep in mind when i go back to look at the history of all these sort of election years, charles, we found you're typically strong in q1, you are neutral at best in q2 and q3. then you finish higher into q4. this sort of high level trading environment is going to lead to some trading opportunities. again we still think tech is a

place to be overweight but it doesn't have to be the mag-7 stocks. charles: right. >> it could be other names like micron as an example or kla-tencor, some of these other names. >> also mapped out the new highs and lows for the past four weeks as a percentage of the sector. on the winning side basic materials, industrial manufacturing, on the downside, technology. maybe this is again buying the dip. these are areas that become poplar in part because of all the money cascading into this economy. what is your view being invested maybe not in traditional safe havens and if people are worried about the hot betaness or volatility of the big tech names? >> you know, charles, this has been a very concentrated market really coming off the october lows. by the way we were super optimistic, super bullish coming off the october likewise. for us to rein in the bullhorns here a little bit and be a little bit more conservative about this ties all together. inn those charts specifically

help tell the story to us. if we're starting to see basic materials, we're starting to see zoom of the industrials, starting to see parts of the market rather small parts of the overall investable market making new highs and tech is sort of rolling over it will be hard for the popular averages i think really to take up to the upside. the risk is to the downside, not to the upside. charles: to your point this chart tells a story. maybe if you're nimble and look for individual opportunities but materials, industrials, utilities, they will never lead a bull market that's for sure. >> correct. >> craig, great work. we really love it. thank you. >> thanks for having me on, charles. charles: see you soon. hey, american workers are calling inflation a moral dilemma. economists and the white house don't see it that way. mischa patel, danielle dimartino booth on a segment you must see. we'll break it all down for you next. ♪.

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it's odd how in an instant things can transform. slipping out of balance into freefall. i'm glad i found stability amidst it all. gold. standing the test of time. ♪. charles: i think probably the most important story in america today, and it's reflected even in political polls, the growing divide between the have and have-nots. it has become so extreme. blaming fiscal, monetary policy is the reason why. i want to go to gerri willis

with more on this. >> reporter: charles, there is no doubt that the fed controls levers that controls everybody's economic fate. jay powell concludes all of his speeches with these sentences we understand our actions affect communities, families, and businesses across the country. everything we do he says is in service to our public mission. during her time at the helm of the federal reserve, janet yellen was even more direct n. in a "60 minutes" interview -- >> i [bleep], i want people to look at me take seriously the harm and misery that was being experienced by all too many americans. >> reporter: now the fed knows higher rates exacerbate inequality. a federal reserve working paper in january of 2023 noted that nearly everyone percentage point policy induced increase in

mortgage rates lowered the presence of moderate lower income households in the population of homebuyers. get fewer people with homeowners in 2023 savers made 315.4 billion in interest in deposit accounts. that is four times the 78.7 billion they earned in 2022. that is according to deposit accounts.com. which brings us to janet yellen's role at the treasury, the trump and biden administration, heap ad lot of cash. charles? charles: thank you, very, very much. folks, you know, it's one of these things where on the cover of the economist right now there is a piece that says, you know, inflation it's a moral dilemma and they say that working people say this, they all agree on that but the economists actually disagree. joining me now parametric managing director of nisha patel and qi research, their ceo and

chief strategist, danielle dimartino booth. ladies, thank you both for joining. this is a serious issue right here because the wealthy, nesha, have gotten wealthier. >> yep. charles: they are really struggling. every poll says they're struggling. consumer credit report yesterday, wow, 152 million in credit cards. feels like main street hit a brick wall but what is the solution here? >> this is really tough. the fed is tasked with the main date bringing inflation down which they're using fiscal policy for but it is squeezing out main street. you have tighter lending standards making it much more difficult for middle to lower class to get the type of credit they need. that is squeezing them out from both a income perspective. as they're running down their savings, they're running into having to borrow more. you're starting to see credit card dell link sys go up. charles: right. >> this is very difficult just given where we have inflation and what the fed's mandate is,

coming at the cost of certainly on the savings side for the middle and lower crass. charles: did you guys have these conversations when you were working at the fed? >> we didn't have enough of these conversations when we were working at the fed. i think ben bernanke and janet yellen were a little bit too distanced if you will. mary daley had insensitive if you will remarks, president of the san francisco fed, when it came to the plight of our average working man, average working woman and how unnation affected them. there certainly needs to be more discussions at the fed about the effect of monetary policy and why inequality gap. charles: he says they have only blunt tools this is the consequence of those blunt tools jay powell acknowledges impact of fed policy has. argument, inflation hurts everyone. so it is other job to bring that down, to break the economy this time they didn't really break

anything, the only thing changed, if you own some bonds, if you own some cds, if you have some cash, if you have a home, people who have assets have done very well. >> right, right. and look as the mortgage rates as we talked about too, look that's come down a little bit. we recently saw kind of applications increased which has helped but to your point you have savers earning five plus percent. that has come at the unfortunately disadvantage to folks that don't have the savings. i will also make the argument fed has mandate bringing inflation down, that is ultimately to help bring that down for everybody across the board, right? so you don't need the middle and lower class income folks having to pay more for the same goods. charles: right. >> part of what is most distressing, poll after poll shows increasing number of younger potential homebuyers i will never own a home for rest of my life. charles: new york fed survey is

the most recent? >> yes. charles: we'll rent forever. rent last year in new york sent up seven times the amount of wages. >> gosh. charles: one in four people live in new york city in manhattan are millionaires. >> yes. >> what are you telling clients? on one hand investors are doing very well in this scenario but on the other hand it feels like the country is becoming a powderkeg? >> i would say on the bond side as portfolio manager, especially we are trying to help clients navigate this environment, two questions that come to mind are, is this the time to invest in bonds if i have any cash and i have money to put to work? the flex question will we continue see volatility in the higher for longer mandate what will that mean for my portfolio? guidance we're giving to clients with allocation towards bonds, very clearly the fed in last week's meeting shut the door on further rate hikes. so i would say that that helps from taking out that tail risk.

charles: okay. listen, you brought up volatility and reading the future there are a couple things i think there will be issues with that. gerri will highlight that for us to explain to the audience. >> reporter: that's right, charles. the treasury general account, you will see it right here, is the primary operational account of the u.s. treasury at the federal reserve. virtually all u.s. government dismembersments are made from this count. some tax receipts, individual and other tax payments made directly to the treasury are deposited in this account and it is also used to collect funds from sales of treasury debt. think of it as the government's checkbook. let's just hope though there are no overdraft fees. in june 2009, janet yellen had this to say about the fed. she said the fed's analytical prow es is top-notch and our forecasting record is second to none. the actual fed funds rate ignored the dot plot over and over and over again.

charles? charles: it looks pretty scattershot. that's the problem we have, danielle. how can jay powell to your point say no more rate hikes and be data dependent? by the way you got 400 phds, why aren't you predicting some of this stuff in the first place? >> they should be, pay closer attention to fairly recent history. when we were heading into the 2007, 2008, 2009 absolute debacle, economist worth their salt, any phd worth their salt you should have known the economy was inflection point when they see bear stearns go down. there were surprises inside the institution. i know there was. i was there. you have to understand how, you have to embrace humility in the fed and understand when cycles are turning and they're turning hard. you see things like the third quarter of 2023 turn from a large positive number of jobs created to a large positive number of jobs lost, be

cognizant about that, be humble about that. be ready for the economy to turn when you have got a tinderbox as you rightly recognize of societal angst, anxiety about this inequality divide. charles: so bonds, coming into the year, was everyone said you have to own bonds. most brilliant people on the street. feels like a foregone conclusion, inflation will be arrested, bonds will turn up, brilliant people, james grant on the show many times reminded us bonds have these secular moves. there was a time for 40 years that the yield went straight up. then for 40 years from 1980 until recently it went straight down. >> right. charles: perhaps we could be at the beginning of the next 40 year secular bear market that would turn things upside down, wouldn't it? >> it would. i would say you haven't had a time period in recent times where 2022 negative bond performance, 2023 negative bond

performance, 2024 so far looking at treasuries, negative bond performance this is something investors have not been embracing for. what i would say what is different you've seen significant market repricing swing from one end to the other without much having significantly changed. what happened the market was pricing five to six rate cuts coming into the year when data continues to price to the upside. again maybe some economists had not anticipated that. markets certainly didn't anticipate that. we come back probably where we should be. for me in my mind going forward next six months, 12 months we're on equal level playing field with all the data digested are with do we go from here? look we had friday's jobs number. it showed a little bit of weakness maybe what the fed wanted to see. charles: sure. >> inflation will be very important next week. look this is, it will be data dependent all we can say but the one thing i make an argument is that the yield cushion and amount of income you can finally lock in relative to the risk of

running reinvestment risk is fairly significant that can't be overlooked. >> yields would have to go up tremendously to negate that. >> exactly. charles: we talked about earlier in the show. danielle, i give you the last word. jay powell opened the barn door on the dot plots whatever. >> he did. charles: three rate cuts, street interpreted seven, that is what wall street does. he says no rate cuts, feels like a similar mistake, possibly. >> possibly. i still see the possibility we see two to three rate cuts. normally when we see the unemployment rate reflect like this, we have ah-ha moment. charles: is 4.1, 4.2% enough to start cutting though? >> i think it is. remember the floor was 3.4%. we've already moved well off that floor. once you get to the 4.2, 4.3% in matter of months in 2008 it flipped. you started seeing half-point increases in the unemployment rate. they will know enough about history to be prudent, even if they have to launch on

september 18th right there ahead of election. charles: feels like they're champing at the bit, 4.1, 4.2, you don't think it is high enough though. >> i don't think it is high enough. charles: would you be surprised if they kid cut based on that? >> i wouldn't be. if the trend is the right direction, inflation is the key metric they need to look for. see the shoe dropped a little it about, some coolness in the labor market they need to see that inflation. it does not have to go up much more in the unemployment rate for them to make a move. they may preemptively do that to kind of help prevent more recessionary period to get that soft landing. >> bottom line main street is hurting really badly and i think it is a combination of conmonetary policy and fiscal policy. some may be overreaction to the pandemic but there is no doubt main street is being left out of the party. all right, ladies, great stuff. really wish we had more time. folks, my next guest says the market is going through a phase right now.

emily roland is here to share the teenage angst the market is riding out. we'll be right back. ♪. (vo) what does it mean to be rich? maybe rich is less about reaching a magic number... and more about discovering magic. rich is being able to keep your loved ones close. and also send them away. rich is living life your way. and having someone who can help you get there. the key to being rich is knowing what counts.

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charles: well my next guest sees a phase for the market. >> sort of like a teenager going through a phase where they don't often make sense, can be weird, unsettling, they change on you pretty quickly. bring in john hancock investment management chief investment officer emily roland. emily, you're calling this kind of a teenage market. i get where you're coming from. sudden mercurial changes in mood and mind. with teenagers they change up we kind of know why. but in this market we don't know anything. >> that is we're in the unusual environment where the data so far has been pretty disappointing for the month of april. consumer confidence was pretty low. ism manufacturing going below 50. charles: how crazy, not only did they go into contraction but prices went up for them. >> exactly. data has not been great, but risk assets, charles, they love it. it is reviving hopes that the

fed can start cutting again. we're in this environment which is very odd where risk assets outperforming bond spreads 300 basis points. charles: right. >> you're seeing growth at any price company doings the best. charles: part of this you say we exit admin any cycle or mini phase itself where powell, i guess jawboned financial conditions, they have gotten looser. he said we'll start cutting rates. market to your point, whoo, but doesn't this go against what the fed is trying to achieve? >> it does and we've been thinking about fed policy. you remember the movie, flight club? , what is the first rule of "fight club." charles: never mention fight club. >> that is the first rule. charles: he feels he is defending it now. that last question and answer period, he would never even acknowledge maybe they have to hike rates. they're in the position where he can't say three maybe any moore but he is really, he is boxed in now. >> i just don't think he can be

a hawk. i think powell's middle name should be loosening financial conditions jerome powell. charles: maybe we can think -- >> something better. charles: something like that, so this is not helping. >> no. charles: of course what we see with bond yields, that's not helping and yet you know, outside of that hiccup in april but there's still some interesting things, right? the market has still been concentrated with the big winners. value, everyone keeps talking value. by the way in january everyone loves value, emerging markets, every january, every guest, why? it has underperformed for 24 years. out of favor, looking extraordinarily cheap versus growth. is this the time to start nibbling? >> we talked about macro. this is about the fundamentals and where the earnings are. if you look at q1 earnings season so far it has been disappointing on the value side. in fact russell 1000 is coming in negative 4%. on the growth aisle we're seeing booming earnings. a lot of that is it coming out of megacap tech. charles: a lot of folks are

saying if you look at the rest of the year, 4.93 will go up, some is year-over-year comparisons. no way the "magnificent seven and other big growth names can maintain that level. now you want to buy value ahead of that but no, it is too early? >> we like some parts of value. we would be looking down in market cap on the value side. i mentioned russell 1000 down negative%. we mid-cap earnings are interesting. we go down in cap. charles: what about the story on bonds. >> this is my favorite chart. charles: is it? >> one of the things happening we're experiencing a ton of bond market volatility. the 10-year treasury yield fell 25 basis points in just over a week. so what we would be looking at is any backup in bond yields being a great entry bond. if you look at aggregate bond yielding 5.3%. look at this. this is close to the 20-year high. the 20 year average is pinterest 25%. you can get income now. charles: lock this? >> lock this in.

charles: one more thing to go. i think where else you would be looking at emerging markets? should you look at emerging markets or stay with what is working? >> everybody is looking at emerging markets. china is up 20% since the january lows. first it was policymakers inducing stimulussing, buying their own stock market but momentum traders have taken hold. probably oversold at these levels. charles: overbought or oversold. >> excuse me. overbought. fade out. remember this phase, this is not who really your child is. you know who the kid is, stick with higher quality stocks. charles: great stuff, emily. >> thanks so much. take care. charles: as usual love it. here is a question for you, did reddit safe the ipo market? we have the main person you want to ask. sarah koontz is with us after this. ♪.

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charles: they overpaid by a trillion and that's all the biggest ones in silicon valley and the markets slowed down and hoping maybe sill silicon vally greed would slow a bit and g etting behind the winners and losers and it's not really back. the renaissance ipo trailing bay hefty margin and blue line and

yellow line there. did the big earnings for reddit change everything for ipo? joining me is sara koontz. sara, were they popping champagne in silicon valley? i was shock when had reddit had a pretty good earnings report and the stock went up. jot reality is reddit is largely a social media company and makes money from advertising and s yes, it did better than expected but it's a relatively niche company and did better but not a huge canary in the coal mine either way. charles: i know you're planning your wedding and from what i understand, by the way, changing name to williams or something

because i want to get your name right every one out of three times, last name. you're saying that meta is actually taking share from reddit and everyone is in a hate mark zuckerberg mode and is that a opportunity? >> they're not in the bridal facebook groups i'm in because the reality is that facebook has created these basically subreddits; right? facebook is a thriving community of tens of thousands and h undreds of thousands of people talking about everything from gardening in weddings and t alking about the ones i'm n. i do think that that is a threat to the core business. charles: seeing more and more about the taiwan semiconductor business. what's the story there? >> i really like that company. i really like that ceo.

cc whiz has been there for a while and he was there for a decade before and we all live nvidia and taiwan semiconductor is protected from a downside on all sides and when apple says, hey, we're go that make more chips. guess who's fabricating them? taiwan semiconductor and arm is seeing more demand in the cpu business, they're making about 100% of arms chips and a lot of ai chip companies that we love are chip designers but taiwan is a market player here. charles: you like tie owe tafanely here? >> i do. i love a legacy auto maker and toyota deserves another look. they've done an amazing job with the shift back to hybrids for a

long time it was all about evs and now you're seeing people that are wanting hybrids and they have them ready to sell worldwide. charles: it's amazing, sarah, the ceo took heat and looking at markets and not government mandates but a climate agendarme he said this is what people want and he was 100% right and mercedes now put their ev dreas on the shelf for the moment and guess what, they want to make money. sarah, see you soon, thank you so much. >> thank you. charles: all right, hey, you know, everything these days, folks is gloomy. it seems, well, that's maybe one of the main reasons we keep s eeing this so-called doom s pending but it's also been an expensive way to cry in one's beer. earlier in the show, we m entioned march, consumer credit declined sharply and 6.3 billion overall that's what they call a revolving and non-revolving and wall street 14 billion and credit card part of it was a bit more than $150 million.

that's nothing. we typically use that in an hour. buy now pay later for lower priced items and more than a third of the surveys and respondents saying we spend more than $1,000 on this and 6% use it to spend $5,000. i mean, golly, in fact just underscoring this, how pervasive it's becoming and we got a ffirm's report out last night, this morning startling, really startling incite and gross merchant volume up 36%, $ 6.3 billion and revenue up and they're not the biggest out there. it's good stuff for the nominal part of the economy and short term and deadly long term. particularly for folks that have to use these things. if you want to reel in or help to reel in inflation and improve

your own economic circumstance, throttle it down a bit. sending out symmelus checks, put it in the bank. don't even open it up. put the entire check in the bank and policymakers are not doing their part and they're going to ram money into the system and election year, fiscal money is go going to keep coming and c oming and this is what happens in election years and this year is never been anything like it and inflation pressure will stay where it is. maybe we hit the proverbial speed bump because we found out credit card spending went away. maybe going away a bit longer. liz claman, over to you. liz: a bag of degree toes and can of pabst blue ribbon