casual funds in the amazon. yet the automobile industry doesn't care about the supply chain. process all that much. illegal leather starts may 3rd on d, w. the india is being referred to as the next bill, the supervisor with significant economic growth. india has become assault after international wagner. thoughts behind and deals, growth story. now the movie has been and follow for the last 10 years and he seems to be on course to win a toad consecutive the prime minister multiples largest democracy modems to modernize india and throwing it into a significant jail snap case skilfully navigating between the major follow blocks and for addition they india as the voice of the bill of a solid. so today on to the point we have discussed,

this is india and ben would be on under data. so by the hello and welcome to to the point i'm you shop. how do you sign in here in berlin and today my guess walter, j land know he is an ex german diploma. he was invited to of to me during the from printing 19 to 2020 to join. samuel is head of global dialog on fast and efficient at the bill republic policy institute gpi in berlin. and joining us via skype from handbook we have media improve thompson. she is lead to such a 4 page research panel at the german institute for global and adf. so they've got a very long to come to all a few. thank you for joining walter. you have

a long standing relationship with india. you when that as a 21 years old to discover the country to discover yourself. and then you'd have tired of a massive bill now you've seen and bill from 1970 is to 20 twenty's. how hasn't yet changed? well as, as a lot of things in india, everything is to and the countries onto to so it has not changed at all. and it has changed completely noise. they've changed completely because of course it's no more than the state. you don't see the other friends on the streets anymore. and if you have of skies is scopus, everybody, if you go to move by, this is a different, a different girls know every to the cause, i'm all done. so it is nothing reminds you on the india for 50 years ago. but if you look deeper and then you see to the ritual to see did the seeds of the culture of 7000 youth. and in comparison to 7000 useful just for the 50 is nothing's all you have to reach was you have to campus if the most so you have all the culture of the insignia and, and the so this is all the students have difficult to run india you'll find the

india which you have seen 50 years ago and maybe 200 years ago. so modern india with traditional values. now you're not only next step, romaji, also musician. you're also an all time you've written a book into them in 95 and thinking about it, the loosely translated save the old address on the new south. what we should learn from india before it is too late. what should the rest loan from india? well, those points, of course, one is to see the europe and the rest is not the rest of the road. it is 20 percent of the roads and 80 percent of the roads are a global solid countries. so when we had to do, you know, and very often we look too much into a euro, scientific way, german centigrade and think this is what the rest of the world has to think. no, it is not. because the other points, if you're in the rest of the world, so this is you'll see a more globalized road with indians. indians have, have an and uh uh, the indians, living in other countries in the most of the countries of, of the world,

maybe in 190 countries. you have with the us for an indian desperate. then of course the cheese or the section done, a young, a young, a generation 50 percent, the under $35.00. and then you have the risk taking into bruno ships innovation to got, which is something typically in india also. so there are a lot of things which we can learn from india and most of all the b should um they decayed more time and should listen to india. thank you. let's go to the museum. meaning voltage is the, gave us a glimpse of how india has changed in the last 5 decades. now, if you could specifically tell is how india has changed in the last one decade on the movie. could you think there's a picture? yes, i mean i fully agree that that's a lot of continuity going on. um, i mean with my focus on sort of in yes, foreign policy and in the global stature, i think the addition to play, and i think this is a quote from

a ministry or external sales report to play the rightful place at 2222, re se received the rightful place on the world stage. i think what has changed significant, significant base that india is now very close to this sort of self defined a global role. and i think most of the them and his sort of very vicious international um, outlook on it. yes. global position, i think has contributed a lot to that. so i think um, where is india has always been on the way of reaching global stature of having a extremely important and rhetoric my school position has always been there. i think it's never been closing to joseph for actually achieving this. now you'll go on to the report card in the off the 2024 elections and more the same set to win this election. so yeah, what do you think is going to change in the next 5 years under moody? or i would expect not too much to change. i think the challenge is,

i mean, the most domestic do them in the keeping up stuff that you can always development and the economic growth at the level that that indian needs to be to achieve some rich goals. i mean, there's been calculations that well in order to reach the, the, the size of, of marketing the size of the economy that is aspire to any growth rates of 10 percent. and i think that's a massive challenge. so i think that will be probably more or they're just very likely to be more engagement, more reforming the sector. i think in terms of again, foreign policies. i think in the us doing a very good job at the moment to to go for its own interest in the right. so i don't, i do not expect too much change, but more going to genuity on, on that right front sort of thing. you'll see any change in the next 5 years. i think the big thing for the moody government will be to really keep up this promise

of, you know, making india developed country by 2047. the economy is growing at a 7 percent g, d, p growth rates, which is very admirable. and it's set to leapfrog germany and japan if it continues that to a 3rd position behind the us and china. and so i think the economy and ensuring that job creation is there because it has an average 8000000 people go into the labor market. they need jobs to make it competitive. and to also finding ways to continue not only economic growth, but counter balance, the different security, the challenges that it has in the region. and making sure to engages with partners across the globe while at the same time protecting its own national interest, which is economic development. so i think the big hurdle will be to continue this and i think that will be the biggest challenge for the, for the government, or continue talking about the economy. me, my voting is on the way in india,

an open in full suggest an easy victory for not into more days. the heart, the agenda about the to be to be. so why doesn't more the have to worry about any opposition in the election? it seems to boil down to the often repeated phase if the economy still, but would also do more. these identity politics induce 1st. that's the ideology being used by prime minister moody to govern the world's largest democracy . and it's making him popular around 80 percent of indians are hindus, minorities, and opposition. members, on the other hand, have reported instances of intimidation. moody is popular because he has invested heavily and infrastructure and launch the social programs. during his 10 years of leadership, india has gone from 10 to the world's 5th largest economic power surpassing its former colonial ruler. great britain. india also wants to overtake germany and japan, by the end of the decade. the other high profile successes

like the 2023 moon landing only underscores in these emissions to become a high technology nation. and yet poverty is still a visible problem in a country of approximately 1400000000 people. with an average annual per capita income of around $2400.00. india barely out earns nicaragua, demographics, democracy, and diversity. for moody's point of view, this trip effect to is responsible for india as new york. right. is india on its way to becoming a superpower? let's go to a medium and understand what is a sofa fall exactly. everyone's talking about india being the next supervisor. but what does that mean as well? i think i think it's hard to going to be talking about super powers in the current international systems. i think we're going to talk about several great palos or oppose in our, in our sort of multi polar system. but i do think, i mean, very concretely, it means for in the likely seat and the un security council,

for example, it means to play. and i think that's trying to india string to not having to decide for one or the other for china or for the united states. i think that's one particular power that it yeah at the moment exposes, um, and i think it's a b, b not being able to be overlooked in importance of well political decision making the climate change. be it a whatever resolution to the credit, cries it, be, it's sort of the next pandemic, so not to be overlooked, and to be considerate in and to actually not only be considered about to shape sort of the rules or norms that are going to structure the solution also the global challenges. so i think that so considering all of that in your auto payment is in there on the right spot is india on its way to becoming also about um yes, i do think that in. yeah. um is going to have to be considered in all of these

issues. i mean, if we're looking to climate change, the paris balls cannot be achieved without the indian action on climate change. for example, um india does have to watch out that it's sort of it's, it is writing conflict attentions with china of distracting it too much from the past. but i do think, overall, now what's the sort of in the moment, um, in the sort of times of polarization and conflict, where you can play this sort of independence, the foreign policy out to its own strength are right. doing when we talk about superpower economy, please amazing. and you were talking about the economy of, you know, there are these 2 extremes. you have the rise in economy, the infrastructure is getting better. there's absolutely no doubt about it. but whoever has been doing that recently would say that the apple of somebody to that i'm gonna have is that more data is that cetera. but fall what you on unemployment data mean, big issues. how does that go hand in hand?

look, i mean, india and indians have ambitions and aspirations, right? india is being quoted by countries all over the world. it says, you know, it's the voice of the global self. it has an economy that is the 5th largest in the world. but at the same time, it has a wealth gap that is tremendous. and it's got one of the largest income discrepancies in the world between those were really wealthy and those were really poor. but you have to keep in mind that the indian government has to do a balancing act. on the one hand, it's trying to grow and economy. but it also has to, it's responsible for 1400000000 people in this country. and it's not going to happen overnight. this will take time. and the india is one of the world's largest democracies. it's one of the misuse democracies. and you know, it's not going to just happen from one day to another. it's not going to happen within a decade. it'll take decades. so i do question if india is on its path to becoming

a super power in the most traditional sense, right. like if you talk about the us hedge many decades ago, i don't think i think that will just behind us. but india is an important power, it's an influential power and it's voice matters and it will increasingly matter as we move forward. what i asked is because it's a metric counter intuitive that the economy is rising and yet they need an economy is not able to generate employment for such a big you. it does generate employment and the government will tell you that it, it has generated employment. but the issue and critics, what they say is that the employment is in low paid jobs in agriculture and in jobs that are involving dates like they jobs, where much of it gets unpaid. for example, women do a lot of unpaid care work. so it's not that the job to not there, but they're not necessarily the jobs that the youth and people coming out of university want because it's not being generated as quickly as 8000000 people enter

the workforce annually. that's the challenge for any government surveys show that you're on employment as one of the biggest issues in this election. despite that most of your domains extremely popular and especially amongst butte, how do you explain that popularity? well, like i said several reasons. of course. one is, i mean he is, he has one to a twice a landslide victory. you can't win a landslide victory in the roads. biggest democracy without being popular. so something along the way he must have done right. that people vote go out and vote for him. and such a must be for a 2nd. um, there must also be some of something in the record switch. he lives behind. economic reforms of shop creation says confidence, building and other things of which are positive to devote us. thirdly, i think of course the concentration on his person and his p r machinery. our own

team is also make seem uh, a pop star. um, uh with fellow follow us like for our obama, i guess, and inch popstars. um. so there are lots of reasons and of course also maybe one of the reasons is the critics say he's not the, he's the, the, the, into the station of the country of post it's new said is raising the self confidence and awareness of indians that they have a set and 1000 d o. do you need culture? of course criticize this is shrinking spaces for the for saving society. what, but this the vote of it decides, but i think there are a lot of reasons and um, after all this, he has also kind of a background which is a very humble family background. and just kind of as kate, big lifestyle, while maybe others in the old position don't have does. and then he has also had an

old position which was for a long time, not really sure of. should they go for elections and should dave, which would be, who should be the candidate? so this was also a fact of each of them. i would, i agree with the investor said, but i would respectfully also challenge this notion of why he's so popular. it's not just because of everything he said, but the critics have said that he has glowing mainstream media coverage at the expense of suppressing press freedom. on the other hand, the position leaders had their finances frozen in the bank. so it hampers campaign financing. and you also have opposition leaders who are imprisoned on n t corruption charges shortly before the run up to the election. so when you close down the spaces, it's not too difficult to become the main voice that people see. people here give it to you that he's done a fantastic job with social media since 2014 elections when he 1st came on. he

really capitalized, but it's that's not paint or overly rosy picture. i think there's still a lot to be scrutinized and that's always $65.00. i mean that's what it's in terms of lens light. i mean, we are, we have sort of 1st past the post election system where like 42 percent give you a vast majority in the parliament. so i think there's the lens light. also it's sort of an effect of the voting system and you have to be more than half month voting for moti as well. ma'am if you're going to follow the report that we just played in the studio, no more the stresses the importance of demography democracy and that was that the now with everything that jewel is also said to declare that democracy and diversity is exactly what does under threat under movie and that's what he is advertising that you know, this is what we need. even in your report, you have mentioned in the us and echoed, ever less democratic country. now, movie is also seen as a victorian figure in the west. i would like to understand for someone who is that

of how to do, how is it that we talk about landslide victory? isn't that he's going to get a majority of how isn't that? so many people want to vote for someone who is such a dick the toyota personality i want, but i think i, i think it would be a little bit capitalistic tutorial. but i do mean um, what has just been that i think the encroachment on democratic freedoms has been very tangible. but at the same time, i think moody has managed to pick up a, a sentiment that has always been there. sort of the nationalistic hindu focus sentiment that has always been there. i in preparation of today i've read about a polar where in 2974 percent of the sort of a survey said that india, this is sort of, should be very proud of itself. and has a better system than most other places, something along the lines and that, that has not shifted them with some of the 74 percent in 2009. and in the 2019 it

was still over 70 percent. so i think the managers to pick up the sentiment very much while at the same time that of utilizing that of you know, cause of nick somewhat under democratic means to, to enhance his brand and his grasp also on, on the on society. right. and best in countries, i've also expressed concerns about this what at the same time, they also want to strengthen that dies within the independent of its democratic regard. meanwhile, in the us, foreign policy is based on the principle of non alignment. whether it's that i show you green bar or the goals are conflict, india and the movie has decided not to take any sites. let's take a look at how india is navigating between the various bible books or indian prime minister. moody received

a standing ovation when visiting us congress in summer 2023, where he was celebrated as a champion of democratic values. chose to our partnership to our people, to the possibilities of life, had 2 great friends to great nations, into a great power. the western democracies are according moody, partly because they see india as a strategic geo political alternative to be increasingly aggressive china. but india has its own objectives. it has not clearly condemned, is war against ukraine, and it continues buying oil and weapons from russia. the movie presents himself as a confident spokesman for many countries in asia, africa, in latin america, countries for whom europe's problems feel more distant. she said this today, india is the voice of the global sales. what foreign policy interesting is india

pursuing under moody? walter, how do you explain more these foreign policy? i think he has a very skilful appointment just so that's one of the points which is i think a big asset of sure they knew of today very skillfully but mere inside the other side. he is maneuvering among all these big power interests and he's doing a great shopping in making clear that india is not willing to be to follow the decisions of a new blog, some veiled, well, some nations gather together and think they can make decisions for the rest of the road this time so passed and going and i think he's very right. doing so if you see 20 percent of your of of, of the world this is is your being and the rest is not you're so why should 20 percent the best script? uh well how, how the rest of the road should look. so i think there he has done

a good job, but of course he's, it's back by it, by the, by the, by premier to the movie. so this kind of maneuvering and among different interests, where do you find these days? a country big country, which is good relationship to the design and to the public stands and to ukraine, who was just the other person and to show and to, to us and even to china. very those are kind of a pragmatic way of dealing with it. so doing this, i think you have to be skillful, and i think this is something that will be which we really need in the future more because you would need to countries like them, like like india, which could, i wouldn't not say made the age of but what would be there to balance international interests in the, in the 21st century drum. there are a lot of, uh, dogs that have come up in the so called a movie. and i like um, body has origin to make in the other ritual. go to the jumping of the word,

the leader of the word, and india is the wish for me through the friend of the word. how does this trend walk the tightrope with east and west of the 2 ends? and that's a good question. i would also question whether non alignment still really exists because what i see is india is moving slowly from non alignment to multi alignment . and what i mean by that is look at it security blocks and other blocks that it's part of. if you look at the sion high corporation organization, it's a security block. it's working alongside china and russia. if you look at the, it breaks, it's again working alongside russia and china. but then if you look at the quote, it's working with the us, which has long, contentious relationships with both russia and china. so i think india is and the indian government is very carefully maneuvering this balance between on the one hand and becoming more open economically and security wise. but it has to balance this with also the political economic realities at home. and it's were willing to

work with other countries that maybe it didn't get along with tool in the past, so long as it's pushing forward. india's agenda, which is economic development. and that is the main main balancing act there. let's go to meeting before we close the show meeting, we don't have a lot of time, but as you saw in the board more the claims that in deputy is the voice of the globe as though now india has bought at the entrance which i know relations with india and started with focused on have gone from back to us and we saw this diplomatic role with mondays. so with all these tensions, how does end up become the leader of the global south as well? i, i think that that phrase has become very important in. yeah, but i don't think it's that important positively to the rest of the south, which still is very good relations with china. for example. i do think that it's a good sort of marketing way of putting in the even more the map and, but a set i think as india has become most of the transactional and pragmatic,

i think other countries of the global south as well. and so i think if interest align with in the great, if the line with china. great. so i don't think this sort of boy one voice for the global south as an exemption in this regard. thanks made him. that's unfortunately all of the time that we have, but i would still like to us in one sentence by when can you expect and go to become the supervisor? time will tell was that it's, it's already done a good way. so i think it's very close. that's all the time, the god, what do you think about it? well, and that'll be the next up hour if yes, by right. and if you're watching us on youtube to let us know your thoughts, we be reading your comments. thanks for your time. good. but the,

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