returns to vote on a confirmation. senators will also continue work a five-yeareahorization bill for federal aviation administration program current faa authority expires th fday at midnight. on c-span3, education secretary miguel cardona testifies before uslawmakers about his department's policies, priorities, and budget. you can watch live coverage on the c-span now video app or online at c-spannow.org. >> explore the wonderful array of mother's day gifts wting for you at c-spanshop.org. discover books, apparel, home decor, and accessories. there's something for every c-span mom. plus, evy purchase you make those toward supporting your nonprofit operation. start by scanning the code on your right or visiting us online

at c-spanshop.org. >> secretary of state antony blinken was interviewed by utah republican mitt romney at a recent forum hosted by the mccain institute. the secretary answered questions about the israel-hamas war, competition with china, and the ongoing conflict between ukraine and russia. this is just over an hour. >> i was at munich's security conference when ms. navalny's mother got news that her husband was killed, and i have never seen a woman stronger, with more grace, more dignity up against the world stage then misses navalny was that day and in the days and weeks after that -- than mrs. and was that day and in the days and weeks after that. she humbled me. those of us who have suffered loss understand what that means,

but to suffer loss in the way they did it is extremely impactful, so i just want you to know your mother is a real inspiration to me because she was strong, dedicated, and i watched her move those few days in munich like nothing else. she's amazing. my job is to welcome all of you here today. and very glad to be here. as you know, i have an incredibly new job that i have been on a year, and it feels like 10 years now, but i am so grateful because as i mentioned earlier today, it has given me more wisdom, more pride, more dignity in what i do and how we face the world in dignity that so many people suffer from. the thing about john mccain was that he encompassed so many of the ideals that were just mentioned. he did suffer from the war. he did present his ideals.

he made sure that as a prisoner and beyond, he represented what was good, not only about america but about himself and a human being. he was tough, and that toughness gave us so much with regard to legislation, government, a good father, good husband, good man. so much of that ended, as we know, not long ago, five years ago, and as my good friend grant woods said at the time, john mccain taught us how to live, how to live well, how to fight for what you wanted and to remind people that you need to be brave. stand up for those who cannot help themselves. that's what john mccain was about, but he also taught us how to die. how to die with dignity, with great respect.

where he honored having been an american citizen who served his country. i'm grateful all of you are here tonight. i'm so grateful we can celebrate together, break together, and hear from so many people that have great effect on this world and certainly within the united states of america. i'm grateful to be here and i'm so happy to be home. thank you. [applause] >> ambassador mccain is a hard act to follow. ambassador mccain, i have to say a few words about what she has done. when i started this job two years ago, people would say john mccain, we missed john mccain, he made such a difference in the world and we need him today, and over time, increasingly, when i run into people who -- and tell

them i work for the mccain institute, they say oh, my gosh, cindy mccain, she is doing amazing work. she is feeding the world. she is fighting for people. we heard her speak at our awards dinner last night giving us kind of an inside look at the life she leads, not only about trying to get food to the palestinian people there but also sudan and i don't even know all the -- i cannot list them all, but she is actively involved in trying to get food to people and trying to help people in places like the pacific islands figure out how to feed themselves so that they can avert food crises. we are so lucky to have her providing an example for all of us and making america look good on the world stage. [applause] and speaking of making america look good on the world stage, the next two gentlemen have done

exactly that up to this very moment. in a few minutes, we will hear from the 71st secretary of state, antony blinken. he has served as a secretary of state, principal deputy national security advisor, as a senate foreign relations committee staff director, many other positions in the u.s. government. he will be joined by the distinguished u.s. senator mitt romney representing utah. senator romney is a former governor for massachusetts, the founder of the bain company. he was a presidential candidate in 2012 and famously pointed out that russia was a threat that we needed to prioritize as the number one threat to america. these are two statesmen who are leading the fight to protect the united states today. they are protecting our interests, our security, and our democracy both at home and abroad. secretary blinken, as many of you know, just returned from

china and from the middle east, so we have the privilege of hearing first-hand about his work and the challenges and perhaps some progress, but we also need to consider today how to support frontline democracies like ukraine and the republic of georgia, which is very much in the headlines today. senator mccain famously said, today, we are all georgians, when the russian military invaded georgia for the first time in 2008. today, he must be reminding us that we are all georgians and georgia is in a sensitive situation right now, sort of like ukraine was in 2014 when russia invaded. there's a lot hanging in the balance there. senator mccain would have told all of us the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. we heard that earlier today. these two men exemplify that spirit by working together every

day for a better and safer world. please join me in welcoming the u.s. secretary of state and u.s. senator mitt romney. [applause] senator romney: i don't know who gets to go out first. i'm not the questioner, usually. usually on the person trying to give answers. do you remember mr. rogers neighborhood, there was a little train, you know? right as usual, king friday. right as usual, king romney. because i'm always out there with the answers. i want to begin by thanking cindy mccain for hosting us and bringing this extraordinary group together. thank you to the navalny family and for your beautiful words.

extraordinary. thank you so very much for your inspiration. it is touching and powerful. thank you to the mccain institute. thank to david axelrod. i have mixed emotions about david axelrod. [laughter] [applause] i appreciate the secretary of state and his leadership very much and we are fortunate to have a secretary of state who is a thoughtful, perceptive, intellectually curious, devoted person, dedicated, determined, indefatigable, who has traveled the world time and time again, not a person of bombast, but a person who listens and is soft spoken. we are very fortunate to have a man of the kind of quality, experience, and character as our current secretary of state,

secretary antony blinken. thank you. [applause] because i'm not noted for my questions -- frankly, my answers are not much better. but i'm going to ask a few questions, and if there is a little time, i might turn to you. i'm going to sort of go topic area by topic area. i'm going to start with the secretary's most recent trip to the middle east and then turned to ukraine and then finally to china. if there is someone who has a question on one of those topics, i will take a breath and you can ask. please ask questions that are interesting to you but also you might think to the entire audience. first, i'm going to say with regards to the trip to the middle east. give us the lowdown. give us the rundown. what is happening there? what is happening among the israeli people? what is bibi netanyahu thinking?

what is happening with hamas? what kind of deal has been put on the table? the leadership -- what is with the leadership in qatar? you see how i get all my questions out at once? give us the lay of the land and we can probe areas of interest. secretary blinken: first, let me say how wonderful it is to be here and to be with a truly remarkable group of people. i think there is a common denominator in this group. it is epitomized by john mccain, by mitt romney, but everyone in this room is for an engaged in america. everyone in this room believes that our engagement, our leadership matters, makes a difference, and thatand that coe

important than it has ever been. that is what i am seeing and feeling around the world. now it may be that years from now people to pull -- come back here. internationalists and institutionalists but we are fighting to make sure that is not the case. no one has fought harder than the gentleman sitting to my right. i said i was going to say thank you for reading the lines that i wrote. but i think you all know, the country all knows, mitt romney is a man of extraordinary principle. married to an extraordinary pragmatist. it's a rare combination. and i got to see that up close these last few years. he has been in the senate but for me it is an honor to share this dais with you.

to the entire mccain family starting with cindy following in the footsteps of john mccain. i have gotten to work with cindy these last few years. you are doing what is maybe the greatest calling anyone could have, which is trying to make sure that parents put food on the table for kids. when it comes down to it, nothing matters more than that. to the entire family that remains so engaged, it is wonderful to be here and share this evening with you. i have to tell you, maybe this is a perfect segue to the middle east. let me think quickly. before we came out here, we were listening to you. the senator and i had the same reaction, let's go in the other direction because we don't want

to follow. thank you for your extraordinary profile in dignity and courage, and i can only imagine how proud your dad would be. [applause] what so -- so, what i am asked how it is going, and the middle east is usually the first thing i am asked about, i quote john mccain. john mccain used to say it is always darkest before it goes completely black. [laughter] so, thank you cindy for letting me borrow that. now to get serious for a minute. i am this moment, the best thing that can happen would be for the agreement on the table, this thing considered by hamas, to have a ceasefire, release of hostages, the possibility of humanitarian assistance to those who desperately need it. that's what we're focused on. as i was talking to colleagues

this morning and i see the deputy national security advisor here, we await a response from hamas. we wait to see whether in effect they can take yes for an answer on the cease-fire and release some hostages. the reality in this moment is the only thing standing between the people of gaza and ceasefire is hamas. we look to see what they will do. in the meantime, even as we are doing that, we are working every single day to make sure we are doing what we can, so that the people in gaza who are caught in the crossfire from us is making get the help and support they need. we are doing that with partners like the world food program. and we're working with many other governments. we are working with israel. i was just there as you said and got to see firsthand some of the progress made in recent weeks in

getting assistance to people who need it. progress is real, it is still not enough. and we're trying to make sure that in everything we do, we're supporting those efforts. if you step back, we have seen a few things in the last three weeks. some incredibly promising, others incredibly daunting. let's start with the daunting. we now have the israelis and palestinians, two absolutely traumatized societies. when this conflict ends, building back from that trauma is going to be an extraordinary task we also see in all directions. and i think we are seeing this not only in the region, we're seeing it around the world. to some extent in our own country.

maybe the biggest poison that we have to fight constantly, and that is demonization. the inability to see the humanity in the other. and when that happens, hearts get hardened, and everything becomes so much more difficult. so the other great thing we will have when we get through this is to build back that sense of common humanity. i hope we can do that for ourselves as well. there is also some promise. there is promise in that one of the things we have been working on for a long time with the president's leadership over many months is seeking to normalize relations between saudi arabia and israel. for israel, this would be the realization of something it thought from -- sought from day one of its existence. this was something we were working on before october 7. in fact, i was due to go to

israel and saudi arabia on october 10 to work on this. in particular to work on the palestinian peace. for the saudi's, if move forward on normalization, it has to include moving forward on the aspirations of the palestinian people. i think there is an equation which you can see a different path that countries in the region can be on and really want to be on, which is a path of integration. a path for israel's relations with neighbors are normalized, where israel's security is looked out for including by his neighbors, a path where palestinians achieve their political rights. and a path in which the biggest threat to israel, to most of the countries in the reason, and threat that we share, iran is

actually isolated. whether we can move from the moment we are in to actually travel down that path is going to be a big challenge. but you can see it and it is something the president is determined to pursue and we have the opportunity to do it. one other thing. we saw something related that was quite extraordinary about two weeks ago. iran engaged in an unprecedented attack on israel. the first direct attack from iran to israel. some people said well, it was designed so it wouldn't do much damage, carefully calibrated. nothing of the sort. over 300 projectiles launched israel including 100 ballistic missiles. john and i were in the situation room watching this unfold. it is because israel had very effective defenses but also because the president managed to

rally on short notice a collection of countries to help that damage was not done. that also shows something. in embryonic form. the possibilities israel has for again, being integrated, regional security architecture that can actually i think keep peace effectively for years to come. that's where we want to go, but getting from here to there requires that the war in gaza come to a limited hope. and right now, the quickest path to that happening would be through this ceasefire. i think a number of folks, myself included, have wondered why hamas has not agreed to other proposals with regards to ceasefire. what are we misunderstanding about what is their calculation? why are they hesitating? we read about what is being

proposed, it sounds like a no-brainer, they must have a different calculation. what is going through their head? they want to just be martyrs? what is it that they hope to carry out and why have they not just jumped on this and said oh yeah, this is fantastic. sec. blinken: one of the challenges we have is that the leaders of hamas we're indirectly engaged with through the qataris and egyptians are living outside of gaza, living in qatar, turkey, other places. and the ultimate decision makers are the folks who are actually in gaza itself. with whom none of us have direct contact. so trying to understand what they are thinking is a challenge. we have some sense of it but it is far from perfect. there are different theories about what is actually motivating their decisions at this time.

it's something we're trying to get at. i can't give a definitive answer. we will see depending on what they actually do in this moment, whether in fact the palestinian people will purport to represent. if that is true, then taking a ceasefire should be a no-brainer, as you said, but maybe something else is going on and we will have a better picture in the coming days. sen. romney: tell us about bibi netanyahu and what his position of power is, how he is seen among the israeli people, what the level of commitment is in israel for them to go into rafah to continue this effort. i was going to go back to the ceasefire, but what's his political posture now in israel? sec. blinken: as everyone knows,

this is a complicated government. it is a balancing act. you have a coalition. if you are just looking at the politics of it, that is something he has to factor in. here is what i think generally about this. irrespective of what you think of the prime minister, government, what's important to understand is that much of what he is doing is not simply a reflection of his politics, or his policies, it's actually a reflection of where a majority of israelis are in this moment. it is important to understand that if we really are going to meet this challenge. that is at least my observation. i have now been there seven times since october 7. you get a chance to get a feel for what's going on in the

society itself. as i sat at the start, you have a traumatized society, just as you have traumatized palestinians. and breaking through that trauma in real time is an extra ordinary challenge. but it is very important that we, as the united states, as israel's friend, try to share what we think is not only in our interest, but also what's in their interest. when it comes to rafah, our position is clear, the president has been clear on this. absent a credible plan to generally protect civilians who are in harm's way, keep in mind there are now 1.4 million in rafah. we can't support a major military operation because the damage is beyond what is

acceptable. we haven't seen such a plan yet. right now, as i said, the focus is on seeing if we can't get this agreement because that would be a way of moving things in a different direction. sen. romney: you may not want to answer this question, but the president dipped his toe into the criticism of israel and the way they conduct of the war, saying we are not entirely happy with how this has been carried out. what would our administration have done differently? what is our specific criticism and what guidance will that provide for what they do going forward? sec. blinken: let's start with, in a sense the obvious, that seems to have been erased from the conversation, which is october 7. it is extraordinary how quickly the world moves on from that. it is also extraordinary the

extent to which hamas is not even a part of the conversation. i think that is worth a moment of reflection, too. we have said from the start, and the president has admitted from the start to the proposition that israel not only has a right to defend itself, not only has a right to try to make sure october 7 never happens again, it has an obligation. that is something we have supported from day one. but we have also said from day one, palestine matters. and here, the damage that has been done to so many innocent children, women and men. again, in this crossfire hamas is making, has to be something we focus on, as it has been from

day one. trying to make sure assistance gets to those who need it. trying to make sure civilians are protected to the greatest extent possible. everyone knows this is a unique challenge because when you have an enemy, a terrorist group like hamas that embeds itself in the civilian population in a way we haven't seen before, and is hiding in and under mosques, schools, apartment buildings, it is a limit incredibly tall order. but even so, what we have been pushing from the very start is to do as much as possible, and to do more to look out for civilians and make sure that those who need help get it. sen. romney: why has the p.r. been so awful? i know that is not your area of expertise, but i'm sure you have thoughts on that, which as you

said, why has hamas disappeared in terms of public perception? an offer is on the table, have a ceasefire, get the world is screaming about israel, why are they not streaming about hamas, instead of bringing home the hostages, it is the other way around. typically, the israelis are good at p.r., what has happened here? how have they and we been so ineffective at communicating the realities there and our point of view? sec. blinken: there are two things. one has been an inescapable reality. that is the inescapable reality of people who continue to suffer grievously in gaza. that is real. and has to be focused on. at the same time, how this narrative has evolved, it's a

great question. i don't have a good answer to that. one can speculate about what some of the causes might be. i don't know. i can tell you this. we were talking about this little bit over dinner with cindy in my time in washington, which is a little over 30 years, the single biggest change has been in the information environment. when i started out in the early 1990's, everyone did the same thing. he woke up in the morning, went to the door of your apartment or house, pick up a hard copy of the new york times or washington journal. -- washington post or wall street journal. now we are in a see if information -- sea of information with new impulses every millisecond. the way this has played out on social media has dominated the narrative.

and you have the social media ecosystem in which context, history, facts get lost. and the emotion, the impact of images dominates. and we can't discount that, but i think it also has a challenging effect on the narrative. sen. romney: small parenthetical point, some wonder why the there was underwhelming support to shut down tiktok or other entities of that nature. if you look at the postings and the number of mentions of palestinians relative to other social media sites, it is overwhelmingly so among tiktok broadcasts. i know that is of real interest and the president will get the chance to make action in that regard. the president spoke about a two

state solution and a number of people have said that is impossible. bibi netanyahu basically said that is impossible. is it possible to have a two-state solution? that is far from where we are right now. it's like a whole different round. -- realm. is that essential to beginning normalization relations with saudi arabia and others to say here is a vision of steps we might get to? is it possible and what would that look like? sec. blinken: for me and the president, the answer is yes. you can say that especially in this moment that is naive and impossible. but i think it is an imperative. let me put it this way. folks, we're talking about normalization with saudi arabia.

i sat with mbs multiple times, the crown prince, and clearly he wants to pursue normalization and would like to do it as soon as possible if we can complete the richmond -- agreement we are trying to reach between the united states and saudi arabia. two requirements. one, credible pathway to a palestinian state. this is what people in the region need to see if they are going to fully get behind normalized relations between the remaining arab countries and israel. the other more fundamental question is this. you have got 5 million palestinians living between the west bank and gaza. about 7 million jews. palestinians are not going anywhere and jews are not going anywhere. there has to be a combination. now some believe that the status

quo before october 7. fine. let's live that way. and that works brilliantly until it failed catastrophically. so, at some point i believe there has to be a step back, and everyone will have to ask themselves questions about what do we want the future to be? the future that i talked about a few minutes ago, where israel finally realizes what it wanted from day one, to be accepted in the region, to be part of the neighborhood. that is achievable. it is there but it requires resolution to the palestinian question. i believe there can be a palestinian state with the necessary security guarantees for israel. to some extent, i think you have israelis who would like to get real separation.

that is one way to do it. who knows what happens in the following years. of course, as we say this, we are absolutely committed to israel's security. israel cannot and will not accept hamas coming together next-door. i am convinced there are ways to put palestinians on the pathway to a state that demonstrates that the state will not be what israelis might fear. and i think it will lead to a much better future. everyone in this room knows there is a long story when you are talking about tiktok. you had to oversimplify after the creation of the state of israel, and to decades of basically arab rejection. that went away with egypt and jordan making peace.

then you had some decades, in effect, a palestinian rejection because deals were put on the table. cap david, others -- camp david, others that would've given palestinians 97% of what they sought. but the last decade or so has been one in which israelis maybe became comfortable with that status quo. as i say, i don't think it is sustainable. sen. romney: anyone else, topic? israel, middle east? yes, sir. you have got to be real loud. i will repeat it but it has got to be short, too.

sen. romney: maybe that is a great segue. sec. blinken: just a few things to say here. first, with china, just before we were in the middle east. now we're in china. almost a year ago, i took a trip at a time when we had been very disengaged. i think one of the things president biden believes is that we have an obligation to manage this relationship responsibly. we are in intense competition with china. there is nothing wrong with competition as long it is it is -- as long as it is fair. we have to make sure competition does not veer into

conflict. we began a process every engagement with our eyes wide open. a number of my colleagues followed. also important, president biden and president xi met at the end of the year in san francisco at the aipac meeting. what we tried to do, first and foremost is reestablish regular dialogue at all levels. the most important piece was reestablishing military communications because the quickest way to get into unintended conflict is not to have those conversations happening. that has been fully restored. if we get the opportunity to cooperate, that would be in beetle interest. it is important because you want to be externally clear, extremely direct and explicit about your differences and your

intentions. and we have a world of differences. but it is better to be talking about them directly then it is to be disengaged. what i found, including this most recent trip, is that we're able to engage on those differences in a very clear way. not that we resolved them but we might have a better understanding of each other's intentions and that is important. something else has changed. this is something we talked about a lot. and china has been in the mixed ordinary leader on. the relationship with china for us is arguably the most consequential, may be most complex. it is hard to put it on a bumper sticker. i said competition, that is the closest we have to a defining word, but there is also areas

where we cooperate because it is in our mitchell interest to do so. in each of those areas, what makes the most sense for us is to be able to approach china from a position of strength. that is the biggest difference we have seen the last three years because we came in with the proposition that we needed to do two things in order to engage china. one was to make investments on ourselves. you have seen that with infrastructure, the chip same science act, by the way we have an extra ordinary partner in arizona state university for chips and science, that has been a a workable thing to see. you see it with other work that has been done including on a bipartisan basis with congress which is a nice thing to see these days. the flipside of the coin is what i am in parker's puzzle for, and that is alignment with our

allies and partners. from where i sit right now, we have greater convergence with key partners in europe, asia and even beyond on how to approach china. i can tell you it is something that our counterparts in beijing notice, don't particularly appreciate, but it is a powerful reality. if you are dealing with china on economic issues where we have real differences in so many areas as just the united states alone, 25% of gdp, if we have alignment, convergence with european partners, asian partners, it might be 55, 60% of gdp. that is a very heavy weight and much harder for china to ignore. that is what i am seeing right now and it is making a difference. last night, i mentioned that it makes sense where we can to cooperate if it advances interests. so right now, the biggest killer

of americans aged 18-45 is not guns, not car accidents, not cancer, it is fentanyl. every single community in this country has been affected by it. 40% of americans know someone who has died from an overdose. that is the impact. we note that a big part of the problem has to be challenged at home as we are doing by investing in awareness and treatment, and prevention, law enforcement. but the other big side of the equation is supply. how this works, as everyone knows, you have got the ingredients that go into making synthetic opioids that may be made halfway around the world, in this case, in china and made for perfectly legal reasons but then get diverted into criminal enterprise and into the synthesis of fentanyl, comes

into the country and kills our friends and neighbors. we had been putting a lot of pressure on china to take action against some of the enterprises engaged in producing these chemicals and illicitly transferring them in making fentanyl. but usually, you have a chance of getting even more done if you can do it cooperatively. the president spent hours with president xi on this, and made clear our determination one way or another to get to the bottom of this. and also shared that what we're seeing around the world is a problem for which we have been the canary in the cold line is now manifesting in so many places. they are trying to infiltrate europe, asia and latin america. we said to the chinese, there is going to be huge demand to lead

on this, to act responsibly. one way or another, they heard the message, and we now have at least in its early days cooperation that we didn't have before with china putting out new regulations. china taking down some of the companies engaged in the illicit production of the transfer of these precursors. and establishing a working group where we are working through this problem. again, they have their own reasons for doing this and unless it is sustained and we see certain actions taken, it won't produce the results we need but this is a start. i shared all of that because it is important to see the relationship in 360 degrees. and all of that with eyes wide open because this competition is not going anywhere for a long

time. if we are approaching it from a position of strength, we will do very well. sen. romney: the secretary had been kind enough to listen to me on the topic of china. he invited me to come by his office and spend some time. given the fact that my real career was in the world of business, i still look at china from a business standpoint and believe that if i were crafting a strategy for a country or a company i would look at china and say, what an extraordinary job, you don't have to live by our rules, and you have done everything a good robber baron would do in this country at the turn-of-the-century in the 1900s, and i wonder if we figured out how to deal with this. because their ability -- they spend about as much on their military each year as we do.

they spend about a hundred billion dollars a year, that's close to where we are, we are 850, and they are buying a lot more equipment than we are. but their ability to spend that is a function of a limits ordinary economy. even though it is not as big as ours, they generate massive cash that allows them to make this kind of investment. they have been around the world with belton road, spent a trillion dollars. we don't spend a trillion on ourselves, they spent it around the world. one of the things they did, they said we will take over one industry after another. they have 5% of the world steel business, now they have 54% of the world steel business. they have taken over the aluminum and nickel business, they have taken over railcars, buses. boom, boom, boom, one after the other. they keep it going. by the way, you make a lot of

money with monopolies, and you drive the american and western businesses out of business. i don't know how many years ago they said the world was going to go towards the electric world. solar panels, batteries, so while we are thinking about what kind of batteries we ought to have, they are going around the world buying up the minds and processing for nickel, cobalt and lithium. they have a dominant position in the major ingredients that go into batteries and solar panels. so as we go into an electric economy, guess who is going to lead it? we will have a new opec with only one member, china, and we sat and watched them do this. and then their cars came along. do you know what a chinese electric car costs? $11,000. why is that? because you are getting the

batteries where the country made a trillion dollar investment to dominate all the raw materials in the creation of these batteries, so their companies get batteries for a fraction of the cost. the battery is the biggest single component in the cost of an electric car, so of course there cars cost as much is ours, or less. how do we deal with this? the secretary has described a strategy which has three major principles, invest, align with our allies around the world, and compete. do we need to align more, to say to china, you can't keep doing this, you can't keep taking over industry after industry and bankrupting our industries, dominating the raw materials we need, not selling to us at the same price you sell it your own people, what do we do, how do we deal with this economic juggernaut, that i think is brilliant, but they shouldn't be allowed to do it and have access

to our market. i believe in free markets trade but you can't have a free market if one person is not playing by the rules of free markets. how do we deal with this? how do we say, enough already? subtle. but i couldn't resist. sec. blinken: you have been asked were nearly eloquent about this a long time and i think it is exactly right. we have fundamentally in the economic relationship that china not only has with us, but with countries around the world is total lack of reciprocity and that is unsustainable. it was one thing when china first got into the wto. some allowances reasonably could be made but we're now 20 plus years later and china is exactly as you described. what we're hearing, again, not just here in the united states but from somebody partners

around the world is enough. we can't do this anymore, we won't do this anymore. when you bring that together, it is harder for china to do more. we spend a lot of time working with allies and partners and taking this common approach and making sure beijing is hearing in stereo what it has been hearing from us. i believe this is the way to get change. we have the immediate problem. sec. dylan was here this morning, i don't know if she talked about this, but she has been focused on china before i was. she is very famous in china. when i was there, you work for secretary yellen? janet has really got it down. the president is intensely

focused on overcapacity right now. we have been through this before. we have what some call the china shock in the years after it got into the wto and did what you described. flooded our market with certain product. pushed our companies out of business. devastated some communities. and we can't have that again. the president will not have that again. help our counterparts in beijing understand that we are making major investments in ourselves including bringing strong manufacturing jobs effectively understates. and -- back to the united states. and we will not allow our markets to be flooded with underpriced products that will drive our folks out of business. the points you make in particular on solar panels, electric vehicle batteries, china right now is producing in

some cases doubled the entire global demand for those products. and it is trying to work itself out of its own economic challenges at this moment by exporting. but exporting in unfair ways. i had this conversation with my chinese counterpart, the foreign minister wang yi, and he said capitalist economies work on competitive advantage. i said, that's absolutely right, but it is one thing to say competitive advantage, it is another thing to say unfair advantage and that is what we are focused on changing. sen. romney: help me get a sense of how they are doing around the world geopolitically. i hear stories, and i'm sure each of the people have heard one of the other stories about how china is all over africa, all over latin america, all over the caribbean. that everywhere you turn there are chinese year, chinese there and yet in their own neighborhood, they seem not to be doing so well with the

philippines, the vietnamese and the south koreans, japanese and australians. they seem to have badly misjudged what is happening right around them. are they doing really well in africa and latin america and the caribbean? how are they doing geopolitically? sec. blinken: there is a few things going on. first, as you mentioned earlier and a few minutes ago, they have been engaged for a long period of time in their belt and road program making investments in different parts of the world. it has had real successes over time in terms of positioning them economically and strategically. the two things are very much married. we have also seen two things. the way these investments have been made in many cases, not all, but many cases. piling countries with debt, bringing in workers from china to take on the jobs instead of having local workers take them on, building things to

substandards, bringing shall we say, a disregard for workers and the environment with it. that also begins to have effect. countries appreciate the magnitude of the investment, the rapidity, something which is not our forte i will come back to that in a second. there is often a price to be paid later. i think china is trying to adjust because it has gotten pushed back. as people start to realize some of what these investments mean. the other challenge is it has less money to invest because it has its own economic challenges. but you mentioned the imperative of critical minerals and the building blocks of the 21st

century economy. we put together something called the security partnership or we have gotten 14 countries to work together and potentially invest together around the world in projects to make sure that we can build our own resilient supply chains. and not be dependent on any part of the world, whether it is trying our anyone else. we now have some of those projects that are either moving forward or we are actively looking at. ultimately, our comparative advantage in this area is the private sector. we will never compete with china state to state level, dollar for dollar, that is not the nature of our system. what my job, part of the state department's job is making sure we are helping open trade for american investment.

that is what we have gone the government focused on in ways we have not before. other parts of the government are focused on trying to be more effective to serve as guarantors or catalysts for the private sector. the critical difference is doing it with other countries. the president put together something with the g7 countries, the partnership for global investment and infrastructure. it is the same basic idea. any of us acting alone, it's going to be hard to match what china is doing. when we can work collectively, marshall our resources, or as necessary have some of us active in one place, others in the other, that is the way you deal with some of the advantages china has shown in recent years. china covers a lot of ground in the pacific islands, maybe more than we can cover ourselves, although we made a major

investment. the president had two summit meetings at the white house. but when we're working in collaboration with australia, new zealand, korea, japan. we cover a lot of ground. you are seeing that play out with undersea cables. in our ability to deliver things people in those countries want. the last thing is this. um, in diplomacy, it is often more effective to say to a country, we're not asking you to choose. we want to give you a better choice. and then you make up your mind. so our responsibility is putting together that better choice. sen. romney: there is a clock up here. sec. blinken: it has zero, zero,

zero funded. sen. romney: it has been zero the whole time. someone give me the signal. i can ask one question. thank you, liz. what am i supposed to do with zero? your perspective on ukraine. which in my party there are people, and i do not understand the argument, i got to be honest , i do not understand how anyone can argue we should not provide weapons to ukraine. they have changed of the argument over time. oh, the europeans should do more. well they are doing more. oh. we go from argument to argument. more recently, that there is no way for ukraine to win. that providing funding for weapons will lead to nothing but continuation of the status quo. what's the pathway forward, what

are the scenarios you see in ukraine and please offer a last word. you get the final word here, mr. secretary. sec. blinken: first, thank you, because your leadership on this has been instrumental. one of the things i have to say, too, is your recognition of the threat that russia posed well before many others saw it in this country, we finally caught up with you. that was a very important thing. now, unfortunately, much of what you talked about some years ago we have seen come to fruition. here's the thing. first of all, i believe profoundly that in so many ways, despite the incredible challenges ukraine is facing, it is already succeeding and russia has already lost.

keep in mind what putin is trying to accomplish. he is trying to erase ukraine from the math. -- map. that has failed and cannot succeed no matter what happens from here on. the reason that fails is the first and foremost, the ukrainian people were determined and showed remarkable courage. it also failed because the world did come together. i think american leadership was what made the difference. we brought 50 countries together in support of ukraine. that continues to be the case today. we often talk about burden sharing. americans complain about the lack of burden sharing. this is the one place where i can say without fear of contradiction that we have extraordinary burden sharing. for everything we have done, and it is a lot, collectively, our european partners and others in asia, have actually done more, military, economic and humanitarian support for ukraine.

i think if you step back, that is important to recognize. the other thing is that in so many ways, putin has precipitated everything he thought to prevent. what russia invested in this horrible venture, we see it in a country that despite massive efforts is going to be militarily, economically and politically weaker -- diplomatically weaker than it was. ukrainian's are united in ways they never were before against russia rate certainly before 20 that was the case. -- 2014 that was the case. europe weaned itself off of russian energy in a are markedly short time. the nato alliance's target than it has ever been. the idea three years ago that we would be talking about finland and sweden as part of nato,

unimaginable. now all of that said, this is a challenging moment. it's been a challenging nine or 10 months because russia does have extraordinary resources. but it seems willing to throw at this in ways most others wouldn't. the supplemental that thanks to your leadership and others we got done was just in time. i also have to applaud the speaker, mike johnson, for the leadership he showed in making sure that got done. so that assistance is on its way. as you know, of the new money is that we invested, virtually all of that is invested in the united states into our own defense industrial base providing good jobs in the united states in a way that allows us to help ukraine. that's a win-win, too. here is where i think this is going. yes, there is a real challenge

in the moment on the battlefield and we're engaged with that. europeans and others are engaged. there is also where we want to take this in the medium to long-term. on one level it is simple. we want to see ukraine stand strongly on its own two feet militarily, economically, democratically. militarily, we have 32 countries that have negotiated or are completing negotiations on security agreements with ukraine to help it a force for the future to deter aggression or defend against it if necessary. economically we're focused on bringing more private sector investment into ukraine. we have the former secretary of commerce working on this and there is tremendous potential despite the incredibly difficult conditions. we can see ukraine developing a strong industrial defense base that will help not only ukraine but other countries.

what they achieved in the black sea keeping that open. there is now more getting out of ukraine then before february of 2022. we have a challenge of getting more air defenses to ukraine, so this investment can be protected against russian aggression. we're working on that democratically. the eu started a session talks with ukraine. -- accession talks with ukraine. it is a long process but it is necessary to ensure these reforms. and the best way to refute vladimir putin no matter where the the line gets drawn is a strong ukraine. you can see that happening. i'm convinced that as long as we continue the support, we can get there. maybe the note to conclude on is this, because i think everyone in this room is representative

of this basic idea. what i see and hear around the world as i have the incredible privilege of helping represent the country traveling around. is ongoing. first, for american leadership, and even the countries complaining about what we're doing or don't like a particular policy, still want us. as we look at it, there is a basic choice. we can continue to engage. we can continue to lead. if we don't, here is what will happen, someone else will. and probably not in a way that advances our interests or values. maybe just as bad, no one will then you are guaranteed to have a vacuum. and that will ultimately come back to bite us. as i see it, there is now a greater premium then there has

been in the time i spent in washington, on american leadership, and we have to find ways to come together to assert that and carry it forward. there is a greater premium than ever before on finding ways to coordinate with other countries. and beyond countries, the private sector, organizations. because for all of our power, for all of our strength, we can't effectively deal with these challenges if we are doing it alone. we can't go alone, and we can't go away. that's what we're determined to make sure we're focused on as we carry on these next months. sen. romney: ladies and gentlemen, the united states secretary of state. [applause] ♪ >> c-span's washington journal,

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washington, live and on-demand, keep up with the day's biggest events with live streams of floor proceedings and hearings from congress, white house events, the courts, campaigns and more from the world of politics all at your fingertips. you can stay current with the latest episodes of washington journal and find scheduling information for c-span's tv networks and radio plus compelling podcasts. c-span now is available at the apple store and google play. scan the qr code to download it free today or visit our website c-span.org/c-spannow. your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere. >> the hush money trial against former president donald trump entered its third week with judge marchant holding t president in contempt of court for violing a g order. the judge warned of potential jail time if the former president continues to violate a

gag order which forbids mr. trump from making public comment about jurors, witnesses and families involved in the case. politico reports this infracon stemmed from a statement he made about the jury during a radio show appearance on april 22, after he was already held in contem and find $9,000 for previous instances. under new york criminal contempt law, the maximum penalty is $1000 per violation, or 30 days in jail. e president spoke to reporters as he was leaving the manhattan courthouse for the day. here are his comments. trial against him. >> how do you think it's going? mr.

>> the government just said that they want two to three more weeks. that makes me think they want to keep me out of jail three weeks. they don't have a case. every legal scholar says they don't have a case. this is a political witch hunt. it is election interfering. this is really truly election interference and it's a disgrace. i am leading by a lot. they think maybe they can do something here. this case has never been brought. way, the previous d.a. didn't bring the case. so southern district didn't bring the case. nobody brought the case. then they brought the case as soon as i'm running and lead, that's when they decided, let's bring the case. it's a disgrace. we -- two to three more weeks? i thought they'd finish today.

and they are finished today if you look at what's happening. i thought they would have been finished today. and they want two to three more weeks. the judge -- played right into the judge's hands. the judge is so happy about two to three more weeks. because they all wan to keep me off the campaign trail. that's all this is about. it's about election interfeern. how do we stop it. and it's a disgrace. then you have the other thing that maybe is even more frustrate, the gag order where i can't -- i have to watch every word i tell you people. he asked me a question -- you ask me a question, a simple question, i can't talk about it because this judge give massachusetts gag order and says you'll go to jail if you violate it. and frankly, you know what, our constitution is much more important than jail. it's not even close. i'll do the sacrifice any day. but what's happening here is a kiss grace to the people involve. new york looks so bad.

the new york system, the so-called justice system, between this judge, engoron, kaplan, the corrupt judge, it's a disgrace to our nation. so i -- they said -- the way i look at it they're talking about three weeks more. and by the way they didn't fill out the -- they didn't have another witness. the government didn't have another witness. so they didn't even have time to fill it out. and then they complained. i'll tell you what, i hope you report this accurately. this is a serious threat to the constitution. in the meantime, columbia university announced today they're not going to have their graduation, not going to have a ceremony. that's happening all over the country. our country is a mess. and the most important day in the history of our country is going to be november 5 of this year. that's when the election is.

going to be the most important day in the history of our country. what's going on with this judge is a disaster. between the gag orders and the hate he's got for me, everybody sees it. you see it better than anybody. god bless the u.s.a. reporter: is michael cohen a liar? is michael cohen a liar?