the p is the cost to contribute to improving the lives of thousands of projects except the cost. and we strive to ensure it reaches its deserving recipients, visit the costs are requested. and remember, it's a copier size, wealth, and increases systems. costs on red chris the moving 200 days have passed since israel launched its war. i'm calling in response to the attack by him. us points is killed over a 1000 is right. and he's on october. the 2nd, the number of casualties keeps rising molded, 13 full 1000 palestinians have been killed. most of them, women and children. another 77000 wounded. thousands more are missing, believe to be buried under the rubble of homes, businesses, hospitals,

and schools. the un says a child in guns that is killed or wounded every 10 minutes and 60 percent of all houses are being damaged or destroyed and is the will lights for a c spot and an end. the violence question arises. what will the pay off to look like for god? so once the war is over to on? so this united nations have pointed forward, dutch, deputy prime minister secret called senior humanitarian and reconstruction coordinator for casa permission to spearhead humanitarian relief and reconstruction efforts. and the strip in her 1st and long format interview, the u. n. senior humanitarian and reconstruction coordinate to secret cog talks to alj, a 0, the secret cog senior humanitarian and reconstruction coordinator for garza, for the united nations. thank you for talking to ouch. is there another last time you run this program was 15 months ago. then you were the deputy prime minister of

the netherlands. you served as your country's foreign minister and finance minister . now you have all the company, one of the toughest jobs in the world. the person you worked for is the you inspector general antonio terrace. but some diplomats on the security council told me the person who was really pushing for the job was the united states and the us secretary of state. and he blinked and he wanted you to have this job does that help you and your task? having his backing logic in general, you need to have the support of the council. and it's always important to have obviously the key players, in this case, a country such as united states be from the rallying behind the purpose of the resolution to have the support. ultimately, it's also my role to make sure that there's unity of purpose that the voice and the members of the council are behind the resolution and our mission. and then it's up on us with that strong backing to try to deliver under quite difficult and complex

circumstances. let's look at your job because it's mandated by you and security council resolution is got 2 parts, humanitarian and reconstruction of the gaza strip. let's start with the humanitarian part because the humanitarian situation, i think you would agree, could not be more graham. we have a brutal bombardment of gauze and going on now for almost 7 months. and we also have a farm and to, oh the, the, the situation and also when you visit the guys or itself. and obviously i'm hoping i hope the journalist will be allowed to, to go to go to gallons international doing this sooner or later when you see the situation on the ground. it is near up elliptic old areas where, you know, houses were standing before are destroyed. we know that health facilities more than 84 percent from damage to totally destroyed every way you turn everywhere. you go, you see destruction. and above all, i think more importantly, there's human despair. people are huddled together and very dehumanizing conditions,

no water. and the garbage is collected is, is collecting industry 3 is a long list, you know, where to low jersey, right? is reporting that constantly. so it is, it is more than dream. on top of that, of course the, the number of people amongst the civilian population that our food is secure or, and living in near time and life conditions, particularly in the north, are of course not only deeply troubling. it also calls upon us to try to do more to reach them. busy to do as much as we can because if you have been malnourished, either as a child or your afflict its conditions of malnutrition, this is like a lifetime of fiction. we've seen this in other countries settings, but not like this. i keep trying to remember each time i go to gaza. um if i saw a similar images of this level of destruction, for instance in syria i'm, it's very hard. one has to be very careful to compare one country situation or

setting with another. so if i just focus on the gaza strip alone, um i find it very uh personnel survey troubling to see that uh that houses are no longer there. and when you drive through, when we go with, is you in convoys on top of the rubble or in between the totally destroyed houses and street filled with the 3 people pop up. and you wonder, are they there to look for something in their old, you know, place of dwelling? are they staying around? are they trying to pick up, attend? if it makes it even more easy, i would say, but ultimately, what are people looking for safety protection roof over their heads will attend the water. they want to pick up their lives and it's, it's a very, very disturbing side, so to speak. but again, i'm a visitor, we're trying to help. ultimately, we have to place the civilians of guys at the center of all our efforts. so about

us, some of them, your colleagues, the commission to general of under uh, felipe. lots of really has described the aspect of this, which is the firm in as a man made firm and tightening its grip is still a basin and you'll view being used as a weapon of war. i don't think i'm i could to, i'm in the, in the position a to, to stated in that way. um, what we need to see. and that's the, that's the main stay of my task is to see that actually volume diversity, the right level of goods from food to medicine, health equipment, you name it, goes in and keeps going in, is allowed in, can be distributed and it reaches the people of course the recent, the months until the 5th of april, when they were very little supply going in, lifted on reaching people to do to all the conditions on the ground has left

serious serious marks on the well being of people. and as i just mentioned, children who been malnourished, not only do they need to refute, exceeding that he's special support. but what i understand from the medically qualified people, this leaves marks for a much longer time. it's still just a matter of, you know, eating up a little bit what you do a little bit extra and you'll be fine. these are very serious afflictions. so our task and i think that's also the imperative behind the resolution $2720.00 which i have to implement is to scale up. and my focus is to achieve a paradigm shift significant number of people in gaza or between food is secure as well as a living in situations of near like simon. we need to tackle that because indeed this is all a natural disaster. and we have the means and we need to achieve it. let me ask you about the city of rafa. the very southern end,

because this trip on the border with egypt, normal population $270000.00 people. now more than 5 times that number living there about 1500000 palestinians. what are the conditions that like now? well, overcrowding thought of people daytime either looking for food trying to find water or perhaps go to the sea, the tools wash themselves or their clothes. um, every week you go or every 2 weeks i've been, you see an increased number of tens. the roads are as a result also blocked, people are just desperately trying to get by, you know, i, i, i imagine at the moment, if you're in garza as many policies and guys have told me when i'm living, we feel like zombies were just trying to get through the day and the day is spent on trying to get the food queuing for water. and if you're very lucky, maybe once

a week or once a month starting to get a very low line to get a very limited amount of cash that you actually need to buy anything else. so life has been up and it, um and prospects are very, very agreeing. and many of these people have come from different parts of the gaza strip. they've moved several times. this is the last place of refuge. and yet, this is the place where israel says, despite protests from all around the world, including from the us that is going to carry out an offensive. what is your reaction to that? what, what, what would it mean for rafa if that were to happen as well? i think from the inside, not only are we are we staging very clearly and pleading for this operation not to take place because it would compound and already profound humanitarian crisis into a, into a catastrophe. people have no place to go. they will so weak the very vulnerable i, i, i personally can't see a number of people even having the,

the mental strength or the physical strength to pick up their belongings and move one more time. they've been told on a number of occasions to move. um, i'm not quite sure if they have the yeah, as i said, the stamina to undergo to undergo this for us also. we don't even know if for rough operation were to happen. if we could reach people, if we actually are in a position to support them. so the strong political play remains don't yet despite that though, the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu says the bible plans are all confirmed. he says those even being a date set for this operation, as you know, prime minister netanyahu doesn't pick up the phone to your boss, antonio gutierrez. he's not spoken to him once since all of this stuff, it's 7 months ago. he does talk to you though, and you've met him a number of times including a few days ago. is he listening at least to the un concerns about the rough operation as well?

i mean, i, i, i've, i've had indeed a number of meetings with, i'm interested in joe and other members of his work cabinet also separately. i like to think that our words and our appreciation of what we, what we see and what we, what we cannot support are very clearly heard. but i believe also that is very of work cabinet is making his own decisions. have they shared with you any proposals or how they plan to evacuate the people from rafa? i have not seen the plan. uh, i know that uh and in, in jerusalem a number of my colleagues had been invited. i don't know if they've met already to sort of to be a praise, so to speak of the, of what's of this very government would call a human to terry implant when it comes to the evaluation of civilians. but the u. n, of course is not enabling a war effort. so these are different conversations. um,

i don't know the details of what is in the human to term plan, but you only have to look at that off and the density of the gaza strip, the levels of destruction, the fact that civilians have actually nowhere to go to know what i said before that, this is confounding over the very profound and deep humanitarian crisis. throughout the war on garza israel has continually targeted hospitals including up to the biggest hospitals, the al schiffer hospital in kansas city, the national hospital and con eunice wet mass graves of even being uncovered. how worried are you about the hospitals in rafa given that they all probably some of the only medical facilities still operating in the gaza strip. make room for family were each whatever is still left standing or semi functioning, or partial partially functioning. only a few hospitals or medical facilities, lips to function. if these are also a input cost it or for the damaged,

this immediately affects the ability to actually meet the most basic needs in terms of health care of the civilian population. now, if there's an operation and are further civilian casualties, you also need to trauma care. you need to have a place to go safely and be treated. there's a whole chain on folding, which of course will be profoundly affected. we've seen a number of fees fuel hospitals when i wasn't guys last week or, or a few days before that i visited francis the i m. c. field hospital will have for me to go to my care under very difficult circumstances. but of course, you don't want to go there. you do not want to be in a position where you have additional casualties. additional children being wounded of their care to encourage their parents or others. that's why i've, as you know, the humans position is very clearly to, to improve or to not undertake, but off of operation and strongly,

i think supported by most of the international actors and countries alongside our cool. let's talk about the delivery of humanitarian aid into gaza. in almost 7 months, only a trickle of the much needed food medicine and other supplies has gone in. i know perhaps that being some recent slight improvements, but tell me why is this a not guessing? and i've been covering this daily and i really can come to no other conclusion than israel is deliberately not less than get in. this way the government has taken a number of measures adopted the commitments from opening of crossings, diversification extended, working hours, repairs of the, of, of, of water over in the halls of water pipelines. this i think is a start, but it needs to be sustained and it needs to be expanded the period before that indeed, we were all asking for an increase in the number of trucks asking for some of the measures actually that had been a that on the 5th of april,

and we need much more. did you say that there was a change on a pull the face that followed a phone call between president biden and prime minister netanyahu on april, the 4th, apparently a pretty tense fucking cool. israel has now promised that it will, it will allow way to go through areas and the newest, for example, and use ash told port, which is just the 34 kilometers from errors. but the us officials that talked about flooding the zone that's not happening, is it? yeah, well, you can see i'm the verb flooding the zone, i understand. but unless you benchmark it or you give a qualifying a indicator to it. i think it's, it's, it's hard to say what we're saying is we need a lot more. and we need a variety of goods, not just flour for basic medicine. these to be across the range and it needs to be all over the guys. i sleep in a consistent manner and whether because then cold flooding or no clothing,

i myself, i've used that for before. i think what i'd like to get to is a metric. why do people need on a daily basis to actually have the essential elements they need for human dignity to live? what do you need for protection? what do you need and health care? what do you need and food? and more. and that's where we're trying to put the metrics around and then we can work our way back and say, okay, that's interesting. this is what's going in every day. i want to move everybody away from counting trucks. country trucks is a false metric. some trucks are health, empty, others don't get to distribute properly or get looted. we need to see what reaches people. if it reaches civilians, they receive it, they can consume it, they can use it. that's when, because start to measure about impact. that's what this is all about. so do we have the meet you safe and on him, the delivery of humanitarian assistance at scale? why am i choosing that quote, because it's from the resolution 2720 the one,

the set, top up, your job. israel is not complying with that resolution or 2 of the security council resolutions owe to provisional meshes, ordered by the international court of justice the the world stopped, but to use it, we spent a number of months trying to get to the point i would say of an increase in volume inconsistency as a stand ability and it hasn't been easy. and ultimately it's still been easy, 1st and foremost, and only for the civilians in garza. they have barely survived and we see that in the levels are found oppression. we see that in the injuries that they've sustained receives in the absence of treatment, or what we need to see and working towards is indeed to get to a place of safe and secure delivery. some of these measures that were adopted or very important for that, but much more as needed, which is why i'm calling for a paradigm shift and we can qualify that, which isn't the skewed why. in the security council, i listed a number of the measures that are either under implementation,

but need acceleration, or wherever we still need a lot of work in action. that'll give you a very simple example. we may have filled trucks, but if they can't fall, so the do to bad roads, they can't reach people. so we might have the volume. but unless you can reach people, you need all these elements to be fixed and this requires acceleration and immediate follow up. continuous follow up by these way, the authorities and in this case by the idea of the us military love, the acronym is this one here, j lot. so the joint logistics over the show all that's the. yeah. but they're planning to build. why is it necessary to bring a didn't buy ship, isn't this a totally inefficient way of doing things? well, perhaps in other, other settings, one would know they need you to think of it. however, before we set that all routes can lead to diversification increase of the type of assistance that can enter garza,

i've always considered the merits on core to when it was 1st being discussed as a potentially a pool, as a potential avenue actually for recovery and reconstruction materials in the period the past however, and with food is security levels being so high and fears of thumb and particularly affecting northern guys are the civilians there or discussions accelerate and then you know, present in vitamin announced that in the state of union, the us would engage on building disappear. now the peer provides for an additional additional route to get a into gaza across across the strip can be beneficial. it's certainly not cheap, absolutely tensile so the push will always remain to focus really on long, long. but the additional avenue of american court, or can be helpful. that's why the united nations also already from february, has as confirmed its willingness to be part of this endeavor under certain conditions. and if certain parameters would be met, we have to,

we have to sort of maximize all efforts and explore 11 use to reach people. that's what this is all about. the same for, for as the air drops on, wouldn't necessarily think of it under any other circumstance. but it has happened, it's a response to despair and inability to reach people. i'm just telling me about those conditions that the u. n. has, i'm told, is the world food program that's going to be distributing this aid. not on the un agency that has the most capacity and garza to distribute aid and isn't it a breach of the you ends, neutrality and impartiality principles to be involved in an operation that so closely tied to the us and is rightly military's, well, this is precisely why we've engaged in the extended discussions the to ensure the parameters are obviously in terms of our neutrality, impartiality, and also safety and security are met a and i'm not going to go, but they've all true the details we're, i think we're,

we're nearly there. we hope so, but there are also other partners that are willing to be part of the effort to receive and distribute potentially a number of and deals that have the same concerns. and united states is, is, is very aware of these concerns and takes them very seriously. this is also why it's taking longer to sort of, to step forward and say, okay, yes, we are part of this in terms of the distribution. um, but it's, it's, it's a critical element and hopefully it will be resolved because it will be addressed over $200.00 humanitarian workers. have died in gaza sofa in the will. that's the highest number in any recent conflicts that seems to be totally unacceptable. the majority of those who died, a postilion, but on april the 1st, a group of international aid workers in the world, central kitchen with targeted and killed all 77, died in the attack. this must be particularly shocking for you, because you were in gauze around the time. and you met some of them hours before

they died. yes, i. and maybe every innocent live that has lost a is a tragedy, especially in war. um, it feels very senseless and uh, having met the, the, the 2 young professionals uh at the pier because i went on the sort of 1st visit 1st encounter. i was so struck by their pride, their sense of purpose. and i would say the very humble joy they took being able and be in a position to actually what they would say is feed families in gaza. and it is very strange to then wake up a number of hours later um to, to here actually that they, that they passed a and it's, yeah, and we've seen also the international reaction of the outrage and the subsequent steps that have been taken. but my condolences in my hearts are with the their friends and families, as with oh,

you minute here and workers. let's talk about the reconstruction part of your job because there was a recent report. it's called an interim damage assessment. note from the will bank and the u. n. says 62 percent of old homes and costs are being destroyed or damage and that puts the estimated cost of a total of $13300000000.00. the scale of reconstruction is going to be massive. how long is it gonna take, and who's going to pay for it? well, how long it will take? it depends on the conditions on excess, on the permissive environment. on the return of the policy and authority on the political framework, as you know, many countries rightly say the investment required really needs to be based on the premise of the 2 state solution and the clarity of on the political framework that needs to be in place at the same time, i think it is uncomfortable to us civilians and gals to wait for an outcome of a process that may take secret, perhaps much longer than they actually should be asked to wait till the need to go

to school. they need to be school, the need to be learning the early recovery and be able to take out of hospitals and health care centers needs to happen. you called us people to wait 5 years for the rehabilitation of their hospital. so these are also pressing needs no. um, but obviously a lot of depends on the environment and where their goods are allowed. and if the investors are willing to be forthcoming of the policy and business leaders, there are large investors that also want to see how goes it can be reconstructed. but of course, is always tied to the political framework, but i think it's incumbent upon the international community, be it with the studies with the expertise. and of course also the when being on the ground that we push that agenda and you fav. otherwise you're telling the civilians and goes with the public opinions. no, there's no hope for you that cannot be an outcome of this conflict. you favor the

policy you saw or she's coming back. that's the stated position of yourself. and the secretary general. israel opposes that. what do you do about it? well, i'm not quite sure of this is the moment in this interview to say, well, what one does about it is requires of course, because it is sustained a political pressure of negotiations. i believe most countries have expressed an underlined the importance of the return of the policy and authority, revitalized, or reformed, or whichever of the are as you want to put as an adjective. and it's very important that governance is assumed with a view to tackling lawlessness to provide for stabilization, as well as stability and to allow for the investments to start coming. otherwise, i feel that we are condemning the policy as in gaza to, to a continuation of, of, of a life and very, very dire circumstances. you have visited, as we said,

garza 4 times. you'll now planning to establish an office in gaza and we're currently based in amman. jordan, you're planning to be based in gaza. that must be a pretty daunting prospect. if you are, if you assume the title and the role of scene, or humanitarian and reconstruction coordinator, i don't think you can do it from new york a not even a mom. i think what needs to be in gaza very, very open. and then also use the experience and the discussions and the reality check from the ground to both influence to advocate and also propose and bring the different partners together. that to my mind, that in my experience is the only way to do this credibly and be informed. finally, you've had a long career, as we mentioned, as an international civil servant in the mid 19 ninety's and one of your roles you worked for under the u. n agency that deals with products and units in jerusalem

that was at the time of the oslo accords. like you to reflect on where we are now compared with that time with considerable hope. yeah, i often that is an easy question. james. i often think about that because on the one hand, one has to be careful, one doesn't sound like an aging person that says oh, in, in the old days. but if we look at 2024, of course, when children forget that at the moment is really families are deeply worried about the fate of their loved ones. the hostages inside gaza, it was, we tried to tackle the urgent humanitarian needs of the policy civilian population . we need a cease fire, immediate release of the hostages and to cease fire. so we'll, so i can reflect on the last 30 years. my task at the moment is to work with these parameters and to keep echoing the importance of a cease for the immediate unconditional release of the hostages. so we can do our job, we can reach people, we can provide prospect and perhaps also pump the seats again of what will be

a better era for the next generation secret colleagues, senior humanitarian and reconstruction coordinator for gaza, for the united nations. thank you for talking to alex and sarah. thank you. the, the latest news as it breaks, another mazda gray of yours more power city on voted over 3 of the, there i did is yours are large, the last, you know, not a president, and more with in depth for pools. the scale this summit was something they've never seen before from the house of the story, almost 500 me to come work is have been killed inside the gaza strip, putting more pressure on health care system that tens of thousands rely on. this is the 1st genocide that we see in the field. there's this disconnect between what we

are witnessing on social media versus what we're seeing on mainstream in the listening post covers how the news is cut. the news from i'll just here on the go and me tonight out is there is only mobile app. is that the, this is where we dissect allies from out is there is a mobile app available in your favorite types to just set for it and type download

the new app from out to 0 new at you think is it the the alarm serial venue is good to have you with us. this is the news, our life from the coming up in the program. this our police in the us detain at least 100 protesters at a university in boston as the city lead movements against the war continues. and it's really airstrike hits, rasa and southern guys are they bombardment across the strip has killed at least $27.00 palestinians, including 10 children since saturday morning and is growing anger and frustration.

and israel thousands gather intel of eve holding for the resignation of prime minister benjamin netanyahu.